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Bayern Large Squad Problem
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Posts: 216 | Comments: 6132

So guys, I alway thought it was a problem that Bayern squad was so strong in term of depth and that a lot of talented player ended up lacking playing time. But now, its getting even worse, last season, it was Coman and Renato Sanchez who had a hard time starting a game and now, Bayern have signed Rudy, Gnabbry, Sule and even Tolisso. I mean, I'm all for a team getting better players but theres no way all of those guys will get plenty of playing time at Bayern next season, even with Xabi taking his leave and opening a sport in the midfield. But more seriously, what are your thought on the matter? Who do you think will get more playing time and who will start the most in important game for Bayern? Do you agree playing time will become hard to get for all those young player? Please share your opinion. ;)

Comments
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[Manchester United, England]
Posts: 15 | Comments: 484

I think it is bad to buy loads of youngsters just as backups because elsewhere they could be developing a career. In effect you are taking a chunk out of their career which could be spent playing full games with a lesser club gaining more experience. Squad size should be capped. All these young players have no idea what is going on. They see going to a club like bayern as an attractive proposition and a way to advance in their career however it is the complete opposite. By joining clubs with large squad depth young players are stalling their careers. Bayern Munich is taking advantage of young players ignorance to provide the club with a deep cushion to help them continuously win the bundesliga and compete in other competitions. there is no way they plan on using all of the players they buy to great effect. They are just buying to reduce risk.

Showing previous versions of this text.

I think it is bad to buy loads of youngsters just as backups because elsewhere they could be developing a career. In effect you are taking a chunk out of their career which could be spent playing full games with a lesser club gaining more experience. Squad size should be capped. All these young players have no idea what is going on they see going a club like bayern as an attractive proposition and a way to advance in their career however it is the complete opposite. by joining clubs with large squad depth young players are stalling their careers. Bayern Munich is taking advantage of young players ignorance to provide the club with a deep cushion to help them continuously win the bundesliga and compete in other competitions. there is no way they plan on using all of the players they buy to great effect.

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[Arsenal]
Posts: 376 | Comments: 6484

Squad size is capped. I expect Gnabry, Sanches and similar youngsters to go on loan. Do they have a right back or we can still expect a new signing? I'm expecting Ribery/Robben to have much less play time next season.

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[Bayern Munich, Croatia]
Posts: 16 | Comments: 775

It was generally a problem in Bayern for long, however with getting Ancelotti it could only get worse (Ancelotti is known as manager who isn't a big fan of forcing youth development).

However I'd like to point to something, that Bayern isn't ruining talents like people often say (in history there was basically no bigger talent who was ruined by Bayern). Basically by that I mean, Deisler had injuries and depression even before joining Bayern, Bayern has significant portion in Gotze's stagnation - mostly because of Guardiola forcing him to do other role and lack of playtime, along with metabolics disease he is currently getting rid of btw. And that's pretty much it from bigger talents, Breno was disappointing and lazy sometimes.

From current players.

Renato Sanches - excluding he was overpriced, overrated and bit lazy, Bayern's only problem was not giving him playtime he deserved, and he wouldn't develop in any of bigger teams just because he isn't good enough (he would have chance to develop in for example Monaco). Solution is loaning him on one season.

Coman - was not that good as in 2015/16, however this is biggest of Ancelotti's mistakes cause he could of simply rested Ribery/Robben in league matches (we wouldn't lose, no chance of that). Solution is playing him next season, it's simple. Sell Costa and have Coman as backup on both wings.

Sule - he was brought in for a reason, it seems like Ancelotti will change system to that one used by Heynckes so Javi Martinez could be in midfield (which were his best days). Sule is brought to be cover for Boateng's spot (knowing Boateng is injury-prone and has a drop of form and Sule was most consistent performer in Hoffenheim). Also will probably get a significant portion of playtime in Bundesliga.

Gnabry - simply was brought because his potential is immense and he could be Ribery's replacement right when he shows slightest bit of decline because Gnabry is world-class talent. Solution to doubters: he will also most likely get loaned to Hoffenheim for next season. If that doesn't happen, consider we don't have backup striker, and Gnabry can play there, and that we would have 4 players on wings without Costa, and Gnabry can play on both wings.

Tolisso - he was brought to be a starter, I don't see the problem, it will be rotation between Thiago-Vidal-Muller and Tolisso-Vidal-Thiago. Not to mention that Tolisso is extremely capable of playing every match in a season + playing in biggest games. Carlo wouldn't splash so much cash on rotation player.

Kimmich - he will be RB for season or two, until he replaces Vidal in midfield (most likely), with buying new RB. His development is not endangered.

Rudy - he was brought because of his versality, he can play every midfield position and also RB, will be in much bigger role than squad player. Can see him bossing midfield in Bundesliga at the start of 2018 to give rest for Thiago or Vidal.

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Posts: 216 | Comments: 6132

Holy banana, people answering my thread! And making good analysis at that. :D How sweet.

But joking aside, Croatian is making some very good point, some I must agree I didn't realize. Really hope Bayern loan at least Renato and maybe another one of those young player though. I agree I was mostly worried because of Ancelotti as he don't seem to promote young player enough but I feel a bit reassured now. And yes, I was expecting Tolisso to start most game considering his price tag. Wonder who is better between Toliso and Renato and wich is considered most important for Bayern future. :S Also, on another topic, I'm worried about what is gonna happen to Muller under Ancelotti. Last season wasn't so good for him.

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[Valencia, Argentina]
Posts: 85 | Comments: 2050

I read an article of the director of Bayern and he stated Bayerns new transfer policy is to always buy young players with great potential. In that regard every transfer has made sense. The important thing though is did Carlo have any say on any of these transfers? Are they players he wanted or that even fit his tactics? With RIbery and Robben being 34 and 33 years old respectively you can guess this will be their last season at Bayern, so having great young players learning for a season and also rotating to get some games will be good for them. Gnabry and Coman seem to be the most likely replacements as I imagine Costa will be leaving.
The depth they currently have is good so they have to challenge in CL without excuses. Though Lahm leaving and no equal player coming in its gonna be tough. Kimmich might do the job, or at least Guardiola seemed to have a lot of faith in him being capable.

As to your Muller comments, Emo, I agree his future does not seem bright. It all depends on the formation Carlo throws out. Guessing a 4-3-3 so with players like Vidal, Thiago and Tolisso I doubt he will play in mid. His only foreseeable role is a back up to Lewa. And even then, hes an average striker coming from a terrible season.

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[Bayern Munich, Croatia]
Posts: 16 | Comments: 775

@Emo, Tolisso is better than Renato both currently and in terms of potential. For Renato we would have to wait 2-3 seasons until he proves his worth, Tolisso will show it this season. Muller is best behind Lewandowski with Ribery and Robben on side supporting him, so it means that 433 isn't best formation for him (4231 or 4411 are good on other hand).

@Raimondo, KHR said that youth is a primary option for next transfer windows (which I agree with much more than buying 30 year old Sanchez) and he also said that there won't be any players coming from Dortmund (it's obviously because of media image of Bayern ruining German football). In my opinion Tolisso fits 433 with Vidal and Thiago much more than 4231 with Vidal and Muller (which in he would most likely drop to 3rd choice on CM). He is box-to-box player teamed up with another two box-to-box players, one who is amongst best all-rounders on planet and one who is unbeliveable creative force for attack and also hard-worker in defence. Tolisso is somewhere between that. He is almost as good in defence as he is in attack (I was thinking about getting one playmaker but I think Tolisso is much more that good transfer and will probably fit tactics better). Also Gnabry and Coman are natural replacements for Robbery, Coman had bit disappointing season so the only reason to activate his clause was to actually use him after next season (if Robbery can give another season of brilliance).

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Posts: 216 | Comments: 6132

@Croatian So, Gnaman or Cobry for when Gnabry and Coman replace Robbery? :P But more seriously, do you expect Bayern to play a lot of 4-2-3-1 or of 4-4-1-1 next season? Want to know cause Muller one of my (and my sister) favorite player. Would be sad to see on the bench for Bayern or have leave in the future. :(

@raimondo Yeah, like you and Croation said, a 4-3-3 would spell bad news for Muller for sure. But at the end of the day, they broke they record transfer fee for Tolisso so I would totally understand that Bayern want to field him as much as possible.

Showing previous versions of this text.

@Croatian So, Gnaman or Cobry for when Gnabry and Coman replace Robbery? :P But more seriously, do you expect Bayern to play a lot of 4-2-3-1 or of 4-4-1-1 next season? Want to know cause Muller one of my (and my sister) favorite player. Would be sad to see on the bench for Bayern or have leave in the future. :(

@raimondo Yeah, like you and Croation said, a 4-3-3 would spell bad news for Muller for sure. But at the end of the day, they broke they record transfer fee for Tolisso so I would totally Bayern to want to field him as much as possible.

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[Arsenal, Netherlands]
Posts: 46 | Comments: 1618

I believe Sanches has had enough playing time. Two more seasons of what he had last season and I'd sell him.

Also, Kimmich will never be worthy of replacing Lahm. Lahm was a freaking legend who loved his teammates and club and everything about Bayern. This guy Kimmich wants to take his anger out on people ahead of him in the starting lineup, like Vidal.

Other than that it's pretty much what Croatian said.

Also, Robben has about two/three more seasons left in him. On his day he is still top three players and up there with Messi and Ronaldo, and better than other players like Suarez, Neymar, Sanchez...

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Posts: 216 | Comments: 6132

@amir To be fair, Kimmich didn't seem to particularly target Vidal more than any player in the game against Chile, I do agree he was pretty annoying though, hopefully, he won't play like that at Bayern. Beside, time is on his side.

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[Manchester United, USA]
Posts: 15 | Comments: 2557

I'll always defend Muller. You don't throw a guy out whose proven as much as Muller has without doing everything you can to help him out first. He earned the benefit of the doubt for sure. If he doesn't fit the system, that sucks, but Bayern should try all they can first.

EDIT:

In addition, I've always seen him the way I see Rooney, an excellent second striker who is capable but sub-par in other positions.

Showing previous versions of this text.

I'll always defend Muller. You don't throw a guy out whose proven as much as Muller has without doing everything you can to help him out first. He earned the benefit of the doubt for sure. If he doesn't fit the system, that sucks, but Bayern should try all they can first.

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Posts: 463 | Comments: 6759

If you guys don't want Muller, then just send him our way. I don't mind. :')

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Posts: 216 | Comments: 6132

@Dynast To be fair, if he went to Madrid, he would propably only warm the bench in Spain instead of doing so in Germany where he already have plenty of attach. :P

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[Bayern Munich, Croatia]
Posts: 16 | Comments: 775

@Emo, Cobry ;) Also with Muller it will be 4231 and without him 433 for more balance in the midfield. 4411 could also be an option with Ancelotti. Muller won't leave that's for sure, he will be kept for last part of season (I believe).

@amir, the atmosphere was heated, Vidal and Kimmich don't hate eachother, idek what Kimmich said to Bravo but Vidal came in physically. Of course that will cause problems. There is no beef between Kimmich and Vidal, don't worry ;)

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[Besiktas]
Posts: 133 | Comments: 3015

Great topic. Even though Ancelotti would not agree with me, any young talent at Bayern Munich who proved himself before arriving at the club is always a talent. Training with all the talents in the club like Robben, Ribery, Lewo etc always helps your development.
Renato Sanchez did play a few actually. 35 Million was quite too much for his show at Euros. I am not saying he does not deserve to play in Munich because he can easily play in ManU alike clubs but what did he actually do before the Euros? He was playing in Benfica's young team. No disrespect because they were one of the best.
Tolisso will get his chance this year like I said before.
The one I don't understand is Gnabry, he will not get the chance to shine in Bayern but there's always a loaning option like Croatian said. Kimmich is needed at the club. Young fullbacks with talent are always needed.
Sule was amazing. We will see how he will perform in Bayern. I can't say much about him but to wait and watch.

Someone said something against Müller?

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Posts: 216 | Comments: 6132

@Emre Nah, I was worried Muller wouldn't get enough playing time cause of all the new recruit and the he may even be droped in the future. Sun saw my concern and simply stated his thought that it wouldn't be fair considering everything he done till now. So no, nobody said anything against Muller. On the contrary, Croatian reasured me by saying he would propably play when Ancelotti would play a 4-2-3-1.

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[Arsenal]
Posts: 376 | Comments: 6484

add another midfielder, James is confirmed, makes absolutely zero sense for me..

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Posts: 216 | Comments: 6132

@Croatian Hey mate, what you think of James signing from Real now? Will it mean less playing time for Muller and will Rodriguez be a super-sub or a deluxe joker? What are your thought?

Showing previous versions of this text.

@Croatian Hey mate, what you think of James signing from Real now? Will it mean less playing time for Muller and will Rodgriguez be a super-sub or a deluxe joker? What are your thought?

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[Bayern Munich, Croatia]
Posts: 16 | Comments: 775

@Emo, I can be happy for James and disappoined for Muller. Because Muller was and is supposed to be one-club legend and one of best ever for Bayern, and one season in which he played different role and unfit in tactics + also benched a lot could ruin everything for him. So far possibilities are, and insanely, I noticed Bayern could play any 3atb or 4atb formation - I really want 3atb so we could fulfill Muller's potential atleast to some extent of returning to form and we can play him in knockouts (Ancelotti is knockout master so we are going for CL and that is no doubt). So here are:

3412 (strongest)
--------Lewandowski------------
---------------Muller----------------
Ribery-Vidal-Thiago-Robben
--------------Martinez--------------
--Alaba-Hummels-Boateng--
---------------Neuer----------------

I know this doesn't have much chance of happening but it would be very useful in rotation except for wingers. In this position we still have only one real striker (Lewandowski) and behind him we can use Muller (obviously this would be awesome for Muller). With Costa leaving to Juventus, we have Coan and Gnabry - Gnabry can fill as backup striker in this position, while Coman basically nothing (too offensive, low workrate in defence). Kimmich could be used as RM or CM, and Sanches can hop in (if he doesn't go to loan). Rudy is also there. Bernat and Rafinha can benefit because Bernat is very offensive and bad in defence (he is basically a winger) and Rafinha is versalite enough to play everywhere on right side. Something like this would be ideal with rotation so there would be no squad problems (this is last we need in Bayern):

--------------Lewandowski--------------
--------------------Muller-------------------
Bernat-Kimmich-Sanches-Rafinha
---------------------Rudy-------------------
--------Sule-Martinez-Boateng--------
--------------------Neuer------------------

4231 (strongest)
---------------Lewandowski--------------
--------Ribery-James-Robben---------
---------------Thiago-Vidal----------------
Alaba-Hummels-Boateng-Kimmich
--------------------Neuer-------------------

This is system which would be made for Muller however with James coming I think it will be HUGE rivalry for spot behind Lewa. And it is also fight in middle of field, we can't let Tolisso fail for us. He's our record transfer he was brought to be here, however with James idek what's happening o.o This would be rotational 4231:

-----------Lewandowski-----------
-----Coman-Muller-Gnabry------
-----------Tolisso-Vidal------------
Alaba-Sule-Boateng-Kimmich
----------------Neuer----------------

433 (strongest)
----Ribery-Lewandowski-Robben----
----------Tolisso-Vidal-Thiago----------
Alaba-Boateng-Hummels-Kimmich
--------------------Neuer--------------------

My favorite system however no place for James in midfield since this midfield would be UNSTOPPABLE. Simply. Tolisso-Vidal-Thiago? What more do you need? All of them with both defensive and attacking skills and workrates.

-Coman-Lewandowski-Robben-
-----Sanches-Rudy-Thiago---------
--Alaba-Martinez-Sule-Rafinha---
------------------Neuer-----------------

Coman is here because he is more of a natural winger than LM/RM, so I think he would this position pretty well.

41221 (strongest) - a bit weird formation but it could work
--------------Lewandowski----------------
----------------Muller-James--------------
--------Ribery-Vidal-Robben---------
Alaba-Boateng-Hummels-Kimmich
---------------------Neuer------------------

This is strange as I already said any by impression it is obviously too attacking (and it probably is). However we would get the most out of Muller-James link (first time I noticed that 'link' could exist). Ribery and Robben would be wide and Vidal bit behind. I think Ribery, Robben, Muller, James and Lewandowski could do all by themselves. However rotational squad isn't bad either.

----------Lewandowski-----------
----------James-Tolisso----------
-----Gnabry-Rudy-Kimmich----
Alaba-Sule-Martinez-Rafinha
----------------Neuer---------------

Damn. This took a long?!

Showing previous versions of this text.
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Posts: 216 | Comments: 6132

@Croatian Wow, thanks for the big analysis, really interesting to see the posibility. Really hopeful to see some of those happen, would love to see a 4-1-4-1 with both Muller and James in midfield, if only in game in wich Bayern dominate and just look to score goal. That would be awesome. :)

  • +4
[Barcelona, France]
Posts: 325 | Comments: 8312

Why James transfer is a win-win situation ?

Real Madrid : Madrid just got rid of a high salary from the squad 8 million Euros. There were no high offers on James and his worth on the market is not at its highest too...
so since the remaining contract is 2 years that's 16 million in the poket, plus James-Zidane was a complicated situation, Isco won the race on being midlefield joker and Ceballos arrival was decisive to James eviction. Ceballos wanted a place in the first team and someone had to be sacrified.
Bayern will have to pay 5mil euros per year for the loan, that's already 26 million won for Madrid within 2 years wages included. And Zidane got rid of what could be the main crisis in the dressing room which is priceless. In addition to pleasing Jorge Mendes the winner of the transfer and Cr7 agent which is not neglected.

After the 2 years loan Bayern has a buying clause of 35 to 40 mil, so the earnings could climb to +60 millions at the end.

Bayern : they are paying his wages anyway and they just attracted a world class player for 10 mil over 2 years with no obligation to buy him, and if he turns to be vital they would match the fee of 35-40mil which considering the actual market is nothing for a player of this caliber. James was vital in Carlo first season who hesitated to build around him before finding an equilibrium with BBC and actual 3 of midlefield.
Carlo's demain is matched and for me Renato Sanchez is the biggest looser of the story, Carlo knows the player and how to use it and Bayern pleased their coach with few money in the table and 0 risk.

The player : Ceballos arrival was decisive, he couldn't breakthrough even under regular bench jokers and lost the race vs Isco. The relationship between Zizou and him is deteriorated and he is joining a coach that he appreciates and be granted of being titular at a Top 3 club that is Bayern.
World Cup is coming and there is no room for a top class player to warm the bench, which he won't do at Bayern under Ancelotti which saw him bagging 17 goals and 18 assists in 40 games in his first season.

For me Bayern wont have any problem offloading players that their coach doesn't want, and Bayern players would still have an interesting worth on the market.

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