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Off topic talk: Trump and Kim summit
iHEARTfootball 2 months ago Edited
Manchester United 32 563

I don't know about you lot, but I had my interest in politics blossomin ever since Trump became president, and I think it's fair to say that his meeting with Kim Jong Un is by far his biggest achievement, no matter how good or bad it turns out.

Some of you may hate him for who he is, but would you have that two-faced nutjob Clinton taking over and achieving peanuts? The fact that Singapore spent 20million dollars to accommodate both leaders and their parties is unheard of, especially if its for a simple handshake between the two.

I just want to see if there are others who may be interested in this since there are other football forum sites where there is a political talk thread.

Any grown ups here keen to discuss this matter? Any opinions on the G7 summit meeting?

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I don't know about you lot, but I had my interest in politics blossomed ever since Trump became president, and I think it's fair to say that his meeting with Kim Jong Un is by far his biggest achievement thus far, no matter how good or bad it turns out. I just want to see if there are others who else is interested in this since there are other football forum sites where there is a political talk thread.

Any grown ups here keen to discuss this matter? Any opinions on the G7 summit meeting?

Comments
nandaYNWA 2 months ago
Liverpool, Australia 87 849

im kinda torn on this. on the one hand, he is a dictator who enslaves people in massive political prison camps. everybody knows of the horrors of the nazis and their death camps. everyone agrees that they're despicable. yet, here is a man who doing the same thing this very day. such an action doesn't dignify treating him with respect in the way this meeting is. he is a cunning horrible human being. manipulative to say the least. one could argue that the only reason he is ready to talk is because of sanctions, especially those imposed by china which accounts for 90% of their imports. he will never give up his power without a fight, nor will he change the lives of his citizens. when you have one of if not the most powerful country behind you, why would you?

on the other hand, the optimistic part of me thinks this is the only way north koreans lives will ever improve. if they open up their market, money flows in, capital flows in, technology flows in. the only way to do this is through discourse. but actions speak louder than words. its clear that north korea has nuclearised, and now kim wants to grow his economy.

so im kind of unclear exactly what the us is getting out of this? what is the world getting out of this? its obvious that they would never change their political system: kim is here to stay and china would never allow it (who wants a US puppet state on their doorstep? not china). and if talks arent for the betterment of the north korean people, or peace with the south, these negotiations just seem like trump ticking off a campaign promise while kim pulls a publicity stunt.

just my opinion.

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iHEARTfootball 2 months ago
Manchester United 32 563

so im kind of unclear exactly what the us is getting out of this? what is the world getting out of this? its obvious that they would never change their political system: kim is here to stay and china would never allow it (who wants a US puppet state on their doorstep? not china). and if talks arent for the betterment of the north korean people, or peace with the south, these negotiations just seem like trump ticking off a campaign promise while kim pulls a publicity stunt.

Publicity stunt or not, this meeting was unprecedented on many levels. You asked what exactly the US is getting out of this? They already got something out of it, and it is that the US are finally going to start a proper relationship with their most closeted enemy through dialogue without the worries of using gunpowder and taking flesh (for now).

enter image description here

From my understanding, NK's nuclear threats have been a major annoyance, not to just to the US, but literally to every nation. China did put heavy holds on trade, but before it happened, NK have already made a good number of bombs that, frankly speaking, we don't really know how powerful they are. I've read some article that one nuclear bomb test concluded with seismic spread that was 10x more larger than Hiroshima. Now this something we should worry about, because we don't know anything about NK's motives...but it's finally starting to unfold after this meeting.

Humans rights is absolutely on red alert on NK, and I think the countless numbers of NK defectors's experience being shared globally is enough evidence, but let's not go too far here. This is only the first meeting, and it solely focused on denuclearization, which has been a major focus in the Trump administration throughout his reign thus far. He did say in his press conference that more talks with Kim will happen next week, so we'll see how it goes.

I'd be down to discuss with you more about the ways NK can improve if things start to go well for them, as well as China, but I want to hear other's input first.

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Croatian 2 months ago
Bayern Munich, Croatia 23 1308

Well both of them aren't so bright and I'd rather live without them on this world, but it is something. Atleast small step in keeping world away from global wars (although with USA and Russia having nuclear arsenals, that is still huge possibilty).

Don't like either. I'd never vote for Trump, I'd never live in a state Kim is a dictator in. However, it is something we should applaud too.

Although Kim isn't doing much for Korea. His people are still living in dictator state, with povetry roaming around and bunch of people living in tough conditions.

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SunFlash 2 months ago
Manchester United, USA 15 2874

NK has never been a problem for the USA. It's China, who is allied to NK, that is the problem. While I appreciate the global tensions have eased somewhat, I do not trust President Trump to not say/tweet something stupid that could move this all back to square one. In addition to that, for some reason he feels a need to piss off every other ally America has, even Canada, who was the target of his illogical and no basis in reality tweeting last week.

I'm a dual citizen. This is not fun.

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tuan_jinn 2 months ago
Manchester United, Netherlands 175 5899

Agree with Sun here. NK was never a problem for US. Never.

Its China who is behind NK

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Emobot7 2 months ago
350 8716

@Sunflash Yeah, I'm the kind of guys who check what happen in the actuality but even I am pissed with the way he's been treating Canada. He need to chill. :(

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Marcus2011 2 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 250 5231

It is hard to give credit to Trump when South Korean leader laid all the foundation and Trump prematurely was calling the guy a rocket man. Do you want to say that Trump was mastermind behind this diplomatic achievement? I highly doubt! I knkw US has a big team of experts but there were two people who could fck it all up at any minute, John “Bomb’ Em” Bolton aka Valrus and Donald “Orange” Trump aka loud mouth drunk uncle at the birthday party.

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iHEARTfootball 2 months ago Edited
Manchester United 32 563

In addition to that, for some reason he feels a need to piss off every other ally America has, even Canada, who was the target of his illogical and no basis in reality tweeting last week.

Trudeau is a terrible president, almost pathetic if you ask me. He acted so weak and childishly to have said what he said in the press conference after Trump left earlier to Singapore. I don't know whether he was inspired by that infamous press conference scene in the film Love Actually (seemed like the exact same act), but it was cringey for him to say that "Canada will not be bullied, eh", when it's actually the complete opposite if you look at the bigger picture.

I'm only for facts here, I'm not trying to defend Trump, but Trump's tweet against him wasn't illogical at all, the only one who was illogical here was Justin, who didn't realize that, for instance, the US's recent metal and aluminium tariffs were in response to their unfair tariffs on dairy trade (roughly around 300%) with Canada. That's not to say that it's just Canada who are unfair, it's other nations as well. The US are losing money here, not gaining a single cent, so who's illogical here? There are documents and reports that prove that the US are at the bottom when it comes to trades, and the previous president did nothing about it.

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expertfootball11 2 months ago
Real Madrid, France 61 2560

This is a Korean initiative, kuddos to them first. Trump didn't do anything, any his "team" almost screwed it up.

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tuan_jinn 2 months ago
Manchester United, Netherlands 175 5899

Am I the only one waiting for Trump's post summit tweet?

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iHEARTfootball 2 months ago
Manchester United 32 563

Am I the only one waiting for Trump's post summit tweet?

What did you mean by this, mate?

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SunFlash 2 months ago Edited
Manchester United, USA 15 2874

@iHeart

I'm an American, I will always be an American. I was born there, I still live 5 minutes from the border, and if someone were to ask me what my nationality was, I would proudly say that I am an American. But now I am a Canadian too. I have lived here for over five years now, and feel just as at home in Canada than I ever did in the USA. And one thing that has to be understood about the Trump presidency is that if America is first, there is no second. Canada means the same to Trump as NK does. Losers, in essence.

To perhaps articulate the Canadian perspective, I would share this article. I empathize with it entirely.

I do not like it when the president of my country attacks Canada, literally the definition of a benign nation. I do not appreciate it when "my fellow Americans" (such as yourself I'm assuming) blindly follow suit. I especially find it incredible that they do so using a totally ridiculous line of reasoning.

As for Trudeau, his actions follow how Canadians feel about the situation, and the result is going to be him winning another crushing majority next year. He is being backed by the entire Canadian parliament right now, which is totally unprecedented in times of peace, and the main reason for that is because Canada's sovereignty is being threatened. Canada is not some pushover that the current American administration seemed to expect, but an independent nation in it's own right that has just as much ability (although certainly not willingness) to stand up for itself as America does. In fact, when he implemented the retaliatory tariffs, targeting states that support Trump, the only opposition in parliament was the idea that the tariffs should not have targeted states that support Trump, but rather Trump's personal business ventures. Luckily for Trump, it appears Trudeau is not quite that vindictive.

I am an American. But I am enough of a Canadian to realize when my country is wrong. And not only are they wrong here, they're operating so far out of rationality that it defies belief. And that people such as yourself buy that narrative is beyond irritating for me. These are literally the numbers on the US government's own site that confirm that the USA has a trade surplus with Canada.

As far as a summary or TLDR goes, I will leave that to Trudeau, who articulated it better than I could ever hope too.

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iHEARTfootball 2 months ago Edited
Manchester United 32 563

Hey, great links man. This is exactly what I'm looking for in a discussion. I'm just reading though it and it appears that you're right about the trades and tariffs. No hard feelings, didn't mean to push any buttons (wasn't intentional, I just haven't looked well enough in this situation). It must suck (to a very serious extent) to be living with a dual citizenship between the two. I'm viewing Trump at a different angle now thanks to you.

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Hey, great links man. This is exactly what I'm looking for in a discussion. I'm just reading though it and it appears that you're right about the trades and tariffs. No hard feelings, didn't mean to push any buttons (wasn't intentional, I just wasn't aware). It must suck (to a very serious extent) to be living as a dual citizenship between the two. I'm viewing Trump at a different angle now thanks to you.

Hey, great links man. This is exactly what I'm looking for in a discussion. I'm just reading though it and it appears that you're right about the trades and tariffs. No hard feelings, didn't mean to push any buttons (wasn't intentional, I just haven't looked well enough in this situation). It must suck (to a very serious extent) to be living as a dual citizenship between the two. I'm viewing Trump at a different angle now thanks to you.

tiki_taka 2 months ago Edited
Barcelona, France 334 8817

Only way not to get abused in this Mad world is to have nuclear weapons. If NK didn’t have it they would have been erased from the map.
Hypocrisy on western talk about human rights needs to stop. France invented the first law about, didn’t prevented us from abusing countries by exporting « democracy model « to them. Last bombed countries because of having « ugly dictators «  were Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya. None of these countries escaped from being back to middle age era and getting their resources and Bank accounts stolen.

I believe having nuclear weapons make equilibrium between countries and serves peace. I think Iran should get one before they start bombing them and I think if a country wants to stay at negotiations table rather than on the floor, the country needs nuclear.

No nation having nuclear can order another to not have one, and that’s what’s happening right now.

Big win for North Korea, no one has the right to decide how a country or its people should live or behave, we all lived before internet era most of us and I believe we were happier people, fact that North Koreans don’t know Justin Bieber or Madonna is kind of good mark if you ask me :p

Joking aside, between Clinton and Trump I wanted Trump not that I loved him, but Hillary would have been an nightmare for the world.

Actually I think Trump, to rebuild America and be given the right to from Congress, has closed his eyes on international US politics that are scheduled for 20 years, I was hoping for a change but he was threatened enough to surrender. Media scandals, JFK ghost on how a president ends up when he disobey.
Not being Friend with Russia, US ambassy moved to Jerusalem, Iran agressiveness were not part of his program but were on Hillary’s, but I feel he underestimated lobbies power and surrounded. He is no Poutine, a real disappointment for someone claiming to have balls. Milking Saudis doesn’t need big balls when you lead US Navy and Air Force.

Disappointed.
Noam Chomsky’s first link says it all about Trump, a distraction...

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tuan_jinn 2 months ago Edited
Manchester United, Netherlands 175 5899

@iHeart: I meant Trump's crazy tweet about random thing. It's entertaining.

Have you guys seen his remark and comment about taking group picture when everyone look handsome, and "THIN" then translated then the camera focuses on Kim's reaction? =)))))))) Hillarious.

That my share point of view on Trump's presidency! That's what I take out of this Singapore meeting.

With that being said (not that I don' t acknowledge his work at some areas), I am also rational enough to learn where his achievement is taking into account the global economy (and how much credit he has on unemployment rates etc..., INCLUDING the setup of this meeting).

Sometimes we need necessary evil to certain extends. Trump is not politically correct, that's not the issue lots of people has, the black and white the alternative fact, the shady bullshit and unclear, unstable tweet is more of the problem

@Sun: very interesting mate to see someone in your position's point of view.

@tiki: sadly, partially true about the nuclear thing. Same with Military power, it's not to fight in a lot of cases, it's about being relevant on the map. politically.

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Marcus2011 2 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 250 5231

Trumps diplomatic skills are very abismal because good diplomat would choose his words carefully instead of talking like hood rat. For example to see how real diplomat behaves and speaks refer to South Korean President and Kim himself.

Does Trump gets credit for this summit? Ofcourse he does after all he did threat to hit Korea with Fire and Fury. Turns out Kim and Koreans were more sensible to prevent such an outcome that will flatten entire peninunsuala which would have led to WW3.

As far as protectionist approach to economy, i think and laws of economic policies argue that it is never good in the long run. Targeting closest ally with heavy tariffs is a dumb policy especially when evidence say that there is no surplus overall.

Trumps contribution to economy is also unsuitable in the long run. Doesn’t take a genius that if you lower interest rates, lower taxes and deregulate the financial markets economy will speed up and unemployments will start to go down. Downside is eventually currency will weaken due to low interest rates which cause inflation ( they recently realized that and started to raise rates) , and deregulated markets are already back in businsss doing risky investments and trades and we know how that usually ends. On top he set 25 percent tax rate which will add another few trillions to already huge US deficit. Ofcourse we can sit here and argue for hours in details but I highlighted the most basic rules of economic policies that drive economy.

I strongly think that his policies are short term and once he is done US economy will be in deep trouble that means world will be affected as well and he will say that during his time everything was great and new president is at fault. The worst part is that Trumps supporters are mostly ingnorant people who lack even the basic understanding of economic policies and I mean they don’t even want to learn or understand. All they want to see is numbers and Trump does a good job feeding them with these numbers that look good now.

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SunFlash 2 months ago
Manchester United, USA 15 2874

It must suck (to a very serious extent) to be living with a dual citizenship between the two

Most people have been very understanding, and I do appreciate that. I do not share my political opinions anymore, just the perspective from which I see the world. I don't want to change anyone's mind, I just want people to understand why I feel the way I do. I appreciate you understanding that. All that can be asked, really.

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Dynastian98 2 months ago
Real Madrid, Germany 470 6953

the only one who was illogical here was Justin, who didn't realize that, for instance, the US's recent metal and aluminium tariffs were in response to their unfair tariffs on dairy trade (roughly around 300%) with Canada

What an ignorant response. Do you realize the implications of a steel tariff? Imagine trying to purchase a car with a steel tariff. A car is a fairly basic need for today, and prices of vehicles will skyrocket in Canada as a result of Trump's childish ego.

As for the ridiculously stupid dairy argument, here are some facts

  • Canada imports 631 Million worth of dairy goods from the US (five times as much as the US imports from Canada)
  • US dairy consumption only has 3% imported dairy goods; Canadians consume 10% of imported dairy goods even with the tariffs
  • Why is the Canadian dairy market suddenly a big deal? California has more population than all of Canada
  • Wisconsin alone produces more dairy than all of Canada

Farmers in the States and Canada are doing just fine producing dairy for their own countries from an economical perspective. If the US is overproducing dairy goods, then it's not anyone elses problem!

The US are losing money here, not gaining a single cent, so who's illogical here?

Wanna know something else that's fun? Dairy trade only represents roughly 0.12% of the US-Canadian trade. And Canada STILL imports 5x as many dairy goods from the US as the US do from Canada. You can see how negligible the dairy tariffs on US products are.

Here's some goods that Americans impose tariffs upon but you don't see people ruining foreign relations over:

  • tobacco - 350%
  • processed fruits and vegetables - 132%
  • European meats and truffles - 100%
  • processed fish (nearly 40%)
  • dates (30%)

American dairy market is doing just fine with the Canadian tariffs! They have a far bigger market than we do, and Canada meets its own dairy demands anyways. If American dairy farmers want to continue to overproduce, that's none of our business.

Here's something to read to understand the sheer nonsense of the dairy argument (where I got the facts in this post from): http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-trump-dairy-stunningly-hypocritical-1.4701046

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iHEARTfootball 2 months ago
Manchester United 32 563

Yes. thanks, Dynast, thanks for the clarification. I know my words earlier were idiotic (rightly so), but my stance on Trudeau still stands.

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