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Pochetinho thinks that diving is part of the tactics
Marcus2011 16 days ago
Chelsea FC, England 244 4901

The Argentine feels football is being overly ‘sensitive’ about these issues and is in danger of scrutinising itself to death.

‘Twenty years ago, 30 years ago, it was like “all congratulate the player when he tricks the referee”,’ Pochettino said. ‘In Argentina but in England too.

‘You believe that in England you were honest and always perfect. That is the football that I was in love with when I was a child. Football is about trying to trick your opponent. Yes or no?

‘What does tactic mean? You do some tactics to try to trick the opponent. You say, “Oh I play on the right but I’m going to finish on the left”. It’s a mix that I am worried that maybe we are going to kill the game.

‘The problem now is that we are so sensitive about the situation. And then we are so focused on Dele Alli.

‘If you try to run on the pitch, sometimes you go down and you say, “Oh, because I was focusing on the ball…”

‘But in the end, it was clear. It was a yellow card, the referee was right and perfect. It’s too much sometimes. There is such a focus on this type of situation that I think is a minimal issue.

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Lodatz 16 days ago Edited
Tottenham Hotspur, England 147 4577

Oh shut up.

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Oh shut up.

Marcus2011 16 days ago
Chelsea FC, England 244 4901

Lodatz you back to defend your club honor :)? So you support diving too!l? Heybas longest it works but isn't small club mentality? Did you ever hear Chelsea fans, manager or board support it? Exactly, never because we are big club but unfortunately we also have players who does it. However, the point is that your manager openly says it is tactics of the game and you got triggered because how dare are we to point the fact that Spuds players are encouraged by manager to cheat! It is disgrace to English football and to see our English players that come from long tradition of gentlemens sport are diving and cheating. I don't understand why Dele Ali and Kane still not fined!

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Lodatz 16 days ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 147 4577

Lodatz you back to defend your club honor :)?

There's nothing to defend. I'm just here to point out why your headline is a click-baity lie.

Did you ever hear Chelsea fans, manager or board support it?

Yes. You lot whenever Costa (or Drogba, for that matter) blatantly conned the ref and got away with it. Like against Liverpool, just last year.

Also, you haven't heard Pochettino support it either. Poch talks about tricking one's opponent into conceding a foul or a shot, and then said that Alli was rightly and perfectly give a yellow card for doing something bad.

So I repeat: oh shut up.

It is disgrace to English football

Diego Costa. Didier Drogba. Shut up.

I don't understand why Dele Ali and Kane still not fined!

Well, in Kane's case it's probably because Kane didn't dive, and was in fact fouled in the penalty area. Look, even the professional body of referees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Game_Match_Officials_Limited) gave this statement:

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11238115/referee-jon-moss-rightly-awarded-first-harry-kane-penalty-at-liverpool-pgmol-says

"Jon Moss was in a good position to see that a Liverpool player deliberately played the ball before it fell to Harry Kane in the penalty area. He then correctly judged that Kane was fouled by Lorius Karius."

So, and not to belabor the point: Oh shu- you get it by now.

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Emobot7 16 days ago
261 7030

@Marcus2011 Please don't call team by insulting name, it against the rule and you know it. Also, chill out, every manager say stupid stuff from time to time, I agree saying stuff like "all congratulate the player when he tricks the referee" is pretty stupid but thats just small talk. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be the only manager to tell his player to go down if they fell contact in the box or other stuff like that. I mean, everyone there want to win, it suck but sadly, its part of the game. If FA start punishing player for diving, it would be good for everyone though, player and manager wouldn't have a choice but to change their point of view and adapt what they do because of it.

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Golazo111 16 days ago
Chelsea, Mexico 53 1953

“all congratulate the player when he tricks the referee”

I don't think that was the case in the past either, ofc the fans that benefit from the bad decision get happy, just look at Lodatz trying to switch the topic, but even in the past it wasn't really an honorable thing to do and to be fair it wasn't as obvious as it is now either since players used to be harder on the opposite players before.

I think Pochettino is just trying to protect his own players and to maybe change the reactions of people, in a way he is right because this is a part of the game now (diving) and everyone is using whatever they have in order to get an advantage.
Still the bad refs in the league don't really help either.

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Lodatz 16 days ago Edited
Tottenham Hotspur, England 147 4577

just look at Lodatz trying to switch the topic,

By pointing out what is wrong with the suggestion that Pochettino has supported diving, since it's not true. Try harder.

in a way he is right because this is a part of the game now (diving) and everyone is using whatever they have in order to get an advantage.

Well, it wasn't actually in response to the same question, for one thing.

See, what Marcus has given you in a selection of quotes from one interview, conveniently leaving all the parts which change what is being talked about, even including punctuation. The context, if you will. Here's the full interview:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/tottenham-newport-fa-cup-mauricio-pochettino-dele-alli-diving-killing-the-game-a8197946.html

which includes stuff like:

"“Look, it was a yellow card,” he said. “It happens. The referee was right. During different games, a lot of situations like this happen. The problem now is that we are so sensitive about the situation, and then we are so focused on Dele Alli. It’s too much sometimes."

Whereupon the discussion abruptly opened out into broader themes: into the media, into English exceptionalism, into the very essence of the game. “Football is a creative sport,” he said, “in which you need the talent that grows in a very intelligent person, a very smart brain. And now we are so focused on minimal details. I am worried that in a few years, we are pushing the sport we love now - a passionate sport that people love to watch around the world - into a very rigid structure. With VAR, with focusing too much on small actions like this.

“Football is about trying to trick your opponent - yes or no? Tactics – what does ‘tactic’ mean? When you do tactics, it is to try to trick the opponent. You play on the right, but you finish on the left. Twenty years ago, thirty years ago, we all congratulated a player when he tricks the referee like this. That is the football that I was in love with when I was a child. Yes, in Argentina, but in England too. You believe that in England you were honest and always perfect?”

Note that question mark, there. Kinda changes the quote, doncha think?

Finally, Pochettino argued that referees should simply be allowed to officiate and make errors unmolested by instant judgement and granular video analysis. “I am worried that maybe we are going to kill the game,” he said. “We love this game. Referees are humans too, and sometimes they are right, sometimes they are not right. In 10 months, over the whole season, sometimes it is against you, sometimes it is for you. For me, I like this type of football."

“My worry is this: of course if you dive, and the referee saw you, you are punished. And he deserves it. But don’t go more crazy.”"

Agree with that or disagree with that, the simple fact is that Pochettino did not support diving. He explained his worries for removing the creative aspect from football by controlling every decision through committee instead of the ref.

Still the bad refs in the league don't really help either.

Personally I think that the refereeing on the weekend was exceptional. The refs made correct calls which were very difficult to make, including of course Dele Alli getting a yellow. I wish he'd get over that.

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Golazo111 16 days ago
Chelsea, Mexico 53 1953

By pointing out what is wrong with the suggestion that Pochettino has supported diving, since it's not true. Try harder.

Not only did you not point out anything relevant but you just put up some videos of Diego Costa falling down, totally irrelevant to the topic which I already said.

Personally I think that the refereeing on the weekend was exceptional

Because your team got away with it, I know.

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Lodatz 16 days ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 147 4577

Not only did you not point out anything relevant but you just put up some videos of Diego Costa falling down

It was entirely relevant to the point of why he should just shut up.

Because your team got away with it, I know.

No, because the refereeing was correct. Lovren played the ball = Kane not offside. Karius catching his foot = foul in the area = penalty kick. VVD kicking Lamela in the thigh = foul in the area = penalty kick.

It's really very simple, when you remember that only Alli dived, and was correctly given a yellow for it.

Just like Poch said.

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Golazo111 15 days ago
Chelsea, Mexico 53 1953

@Lodatz You could have just posted the full interview in your first post, would have been great to read it right after the opening topic.

"“Look, it was a yellow card,” he said. “It happens. The referee was
right. During different games, a lot of situations like this happen.
The problem now is that we are so sensitive about the situation, and
then we are so focused on Dele Alli. It’s too much sometimes."

“Football is about trying to trick your opponent - yes or no? Tactics – what does ‘tactic’ mean? When you do tactics, it is to try to trick the opponent. You play on the right, but you finish on the left. Twenty years ago, thirty years ago, we all congratulated a player when he tricks the referee like this. That is the football that I was in love with when I was a child. Yes, in Argentina, but in England too. You believe that in England you were honest and always perfect?”

I still have the same opinion on what he said, but before anything it's written down that he said that the ref was right to give the yellow.

For my part I don't really agree that people were congratulating when someone tricks the ref but I see his comment as a way of just explaining that this is how the game is played and that these things happen so people shouldn't focus so much on it, at least that is my take on what he said because it's not all about protecting his player he is aware that it was a yellow card but from what I see he just doesn't want the game to be dissected into looking at every single little detail.
So I don't really think he is wrong, every team plays with the type of players they have and everyone wants to come out on top using their body in the best possible way in order to win.

Even so:

Just so you know that my opinion is that Kane was offiside at the time of the pass was made, Lovren touching the ball or not shouldn't really matter as the pass was meant for Kane regardless of the deflection that Lovren made, at least thats how a lot of people see that situation that led to the first penalty, which was in the end a save.

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Lodatz 15 days ago Edited
Tottenham Hotspur, England 147 4577

You could have just posted the full interview in your first post, would have been great to read it right after the opening topic.

Well, since the topic only exists to lie about the Tottenham managers, I didn't think it worthy of that much respect. Instead I invited him to shut up, and gave him a good reason why he probably doesn't want to get into the details.

Marcus didn't have to then go into his rant about Spurs players now did he? And yet, he did.

at least thats how a lot of people see that situation that led to the first penalty,

Understood, but they're simply wrong. It's in the laws of the game:

https://football-technology.fifa.com/media/1245/lotg_17_18_en.pdf

I mean, if you want to say that the laws of the game are wrong, then fine, but that doesn't mean that they were not followed in the match vs Liverpool, and it means that both penalties were correctly awarded.

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Golazo111 15 days ago
Chelsea, Mexico 53 1953

What is not going along with the laws of the game from what I said exactly? From your pdf:

  1. Offside offence

A player is in an offside position if:
• any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the
halfway line) and
• any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than
both the ball and the second-last opponent

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by
a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action
impacts on an opponent or
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an
opponent to play the ball

So...That's basically what I said, Kane being in offside and getting a pass close to where Lovren was is still offside, because he was in offside even before Lovren deflected the ball and even when Lovren did so, it's still Kane that is impacting Lovren to play the ball thus Kane is still offiside. And I know that I'm not the only one seeing that as a clear offside.

In case you are hanging on this part:

"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who
deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is
not considered to have gained an advantage."

Deliberate save means: A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or
very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless
the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

Lovren tried to deliberately save which means it's offside by the book, basically I'm saying this: No, Lovren didn't pass the ball to Kane.

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DarthFooty 15 days ago
Queens Park Rangers, United States 7 260

There is not a player past or present who can make me change my mind on the fact that diving has no place in our sport.

Is it a part of some players and teams tactics, sadly, yes it is. I was coached to try and take "advantage" of the refs positioning and force him to make a call when I was not in complete control of the ball. I am happy to say that I never took that tactic to heart and tried to stay on my feet whenever possible.

I hate diving and view it as cheating. I lose respect for players who do it and more so for those who do it a lot. Not that they care about me not having their respect, but I have my own expectations for players.

I would love to see players get banned for diving. Something drastic to get into everyone's head that it is not something they should do anymore. Suspend the player and fine the team big. Teams rely on money and players want to play. Hit both where it hurts.

And before you say, PSG won't care about a little fine, or Madrid, or any major team, make those teams pay a lot more. Is it fair, no, but neither is diving to gain an advantage.

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SoccerBoss 15 days ago
Barcelona, Russia 33 746

All Pochetinho did was defend Ali, he never encouraged diving nor did he say that it was part of tactics. Diving happens in just about every game that is played these days, and being a Barça fan I can confirm that. During the thrashing that ya'll embarrassingly received on Monday, Duelofeu also dived, even more so than Kane, but it was still a penalty. Of course in that game it didn't matter because Chelsea was absolute trash and got totally destroyed by a third tier team, but nevertheless, a dive is a dive. Despite all of this, I do agree that both penalties were very soft and in most cases probably would've been disregarded. The thing is the stakes were high and the ref probably felt pressured, as well as both of the penalties being reviewed by the ever so glamoured VAR. This is just another case of the pot calling the kettle black, because we all know that once in a while our team benefits from a dive.

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Golazo111 15 days ago
Chelsea, Mexico 53 1953

because we all know that once in a while our team benefits from a dive.

Some teams, like yours, benefit the most I would say :D

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Lodatz 15 days ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 147 4577

No, Lovren didn't pass the ball to Kane.

Instead, he mis-kicked it. That's not Kane's fault, or problem. It's still the rule, and the reason why the PGMOL issued that statement; to clarify for people who weren't aware of this rule.

Rather than 'poor officiating', this was an example of a referee team who actually knew the rules of the game, and were professional enough to actually remember them and spot them during a live game, despite them being obscure.

I understand that you disagree, and I don't intend this personally, but I take the opinion of the professional body of referees more seriously than yours.

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Lodatz 15 days ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 147 4577

Oh, and also:

a ball which is going into or very close to the goal

...which doesn't describe a ball 10 yards outside of the penalty area, which Lovren tried to clear. A clearance is not a save. Lovren just messed it up, and played Kane onside.

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Golazo111 15 days ago Edited
Chelsea, Mexico 53 1953

I understand that you disagree, and I don't intend this personally, but I take the opinion of the professional body of referees more seriously than yours.

You should, but next week when your team gets a shady call against their favour remember what you said, the ref is always right.

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I understand that you disagree, and I don't intend this personally, but I take the opinion of the professional body of referees more seriously than yours.

You should, but next week when your team gets a shady call against their favour remember what you said, the ref is always right.

...which doesn't describe a ball 10 yards outside of the penalty area, which Lovren tried to clear. A clearance is not a save. Lovren just messed it up, and played Kane onside.

Would he mess up if Kane wasn't offside?

Lodatz 15 days ago
Tottenham Hotspur, England 147 4577

You should, but next week when your team gets a shady call against their favour remember what you said, the ref is always right.

That's not what I said. I said that the ref was right this time. :)

Would he mess up if Kane wasn't offside?

I don't see why not, considering Kane being behind his field of vision shouldn't put him off at all. Either way, it's what happened.

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Golazo111 15 days ago
Chelsea, Mexico 53 1953

I don't see why not, considering Kane being behind his field of vision shouldn't put him off at all. Either way, it's what happened.

Ok then. Looking forward to see your take on the future calls.

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