@quikzyyy, that man is not even a pundit to begin with. If there was a dollar prize for every correct prediction of what he says, I'd be swimming in a pool of cash by now. He's in the same league as Lawrensen, but Lawrensen is way below his depth. No one can beat Sutton, however, but at least he's interesting to listen to because he has personality. Henry was an amazing player, but every time he speaks about the game as a pundit, especially those Arsenal games, I immediately change the channel.

Our English players get overhyped often especially after they retire and United or Liverpool ones get overhyped the most . That might be controversial so i understand i am walking on the tight rope of triggering you :))

Eh, it's logical. Liverpool and United are the two historically dominant clubs where most of England's (recent) really good talent has come from, so it makes sense.

SunFlash

We're haters cause we don't think he's a good manager. He has given us no evidence to the contrary, and he has had no opportunity to.

If you say that then what gives you the right to just call him bad? Alright, so by your logic all none 'professional' manager are not good. Also, if he has had no oppotunity to show his skills then you should at least callify him as 'unknown' and not bad.

It would be illogical to think he is a good manager.

It would also be illogical to say he is a bad manager.

Alright, so by your logic all none 'professional' manager are not good.

That's correct. And it's not my logic, it's logic. If he never done it before, he's bad until he's proven otherwise.

Keep in mind we aren't discussing an unknown quality like if we like a certain type of food or not, we're discussing a billion-dollar industry where most managers will never see a first division side. If we're measuring Henry as a first-division side manager, he's a bad one until he proves that wrong.

Scholes overrated ?

If Henry was caoching in the Barca/Ajax/ and even Arsenal styles, I think he would do fine. Of course he needs players that fit that system, but he would have instant respect due to his playing history. Now, you can lose that respect once the players feel they cant trust you, or that you really dont know what you are doing, but trust me, they would follow blindly at first.

Counter to many here, I think he would be a good coach. Perhaps not great, and probably not on Zidane's level, but he would be better than some we can all think of I am sure. Fact is, he has not been given the chance, YET!

If I could manage in my style I would be fine . Ofcourse I need players that fit into my system . Just like Guardiola who is now at City still looking for his players . Manager shouldn't work with player to have him play as he sees it fit but he needs his players .

Since the discussion was closed while I put effort commenting I’m just pasting it here :

Good to see you back Lodatz, at least when we were disagreeing we werent going on retarded debates like « you like him because you are a Barca fan bla bla... »

It’s plain simple, you have results and you have the way to get them. He lets his rivals feel it’s completely deserved if he gets crowned.

Firstly, Pep took Bravo while we weren’t willing to sell, got in talk with Messi before contract extension, and lately would have activated Sergi or Umtiti buyout clause if the players accepted his offer. All this leaded Barca to negotiation in weak position his youngsters and higher their wages... so actually there is nothing friendly between Pep and Barca. A serious rival with mutual respect.

You have an example on how money doesn’t buy success in the same City, no need to go till Leicester.
Falcao, luke Shaw, Bailly, Di Maria, Fellaini, Martial, Pogba, Mkhytarian, Lukaku, Matic... and still United are still in rebuilding because they did not find the formula yet. And I won’t be surprised to see Mou splash +200 next mercato, it’s even obligatory considering that actual squad is showing limits in some part of the game.
Only Danilo is a CL winner and probably the worst one in the team that won it...

So no, it’s actually false to compare City signings to a Galactico signing, City overpay their players, they are obliged but they didn’t sign the best players of each league, they signed specific players to what Pep wanted.

good passing skills GK.
Technical and fast CB, with zonal approach, good ball control.
KDB was imo one of the reasons he accepted to come to City.
fast wingers who complete triangular passing....
For me the focal point is how everyone is involved in Peps direction :

The case Sterling : a player in the tradition of young English talent who will be wasted somehow : Barkley, Walcott, Ox.....
He Came, benched him, gave him hunger and winning mentality, Raheem has made his best season ever this season, his workrate and progression under Pep is unreal. He still wastes chances ( not like before ) and lacks passing skills ( He is no KDB ) but you see Pep impact on him. Without Pep Sterling would take it easy like he was doing....

Bernard Mendy injury : Used Danilo, directly put Delph in that role while it’s not his position and now pushing a young Ukrainian who delivers in big games lately. They all did a good job.

Rotation : All City players have rotated without loosing balance or quality in the football offered. Last year City lacked Depth and Pep had to adapt to manage a money team squad, it’s not an institution like Juve or Bayern, when you get to the museum and see hundred of trophies and the obligation to deliver no matter the coach or circumstances.
In Manchester he found players hailed like gods by English culture, overpaid and eat what they want, go with cellphones in dressing room, fuck before games, have established status no matter the performances.
He brainstormed with Aguero, then Sterling got rid of dressing room leaders one by one without loosing faith from the rest of players, adapted newcomers. Obliged the sta p’ayers To run after the ball while lost and press high....

When you get the feeling that if he got other good players instead of those purchased, they would have delivered too because he gave that club the right conditions to build a successful team.
And these things need a lot of work, money accelerates the process but don’t buy it.
Players like Zichenko would have appeared in few years if Pep didn’t bought the players he needed.

Let’s not forget that he looked for Busquets, Piqué and co directly from La masia being their coach and working in shadow before getting the keys of first team.

If Pep wins this seasons CL I will recognize him as the best manager in the world but not genius. Genius will win it then defend EPL and CL title again. It might be too much but with the depth and quality that City has within the squad they should have a good opportunity to achieve it.

This year he got everyone good. This is a good wake up call for all the top EPL clubs. This is like Leicester shocker but this time clubs underestimated how good City has packed their team for the season. Every top club ( not mentioning Spurs because they are never challenging anything so it doesn’t matter what they did to prepare for a season ) wasn’t prepared for this level of extra preparation for the season. I must give credit where it’s due. Pep with resources provided to him got City prepared very well. He can play rotate and never sacarifice quality in any position which is fc King amazing. No other team I EPL has the same level of quality and depth in the squad counting the bench and reserves. Real life FIFA manager quest!

It’s up to the players at 90%.

What you said : considering the quality City has and depth was up to him, and he did it pretty well.
Im not debating if he is genius or not, I’m debating about giving him credit about how City are behaving and not give stupid excuses...what you finally did at least.
Now Golazo will come and say I will recognize him when he will win World Cup just like he does with players. Because there is nothing to criticize in the way he ( they ) handle their buisness.

City won’t win CL let alone back to back, but they will win PL next year. To win CL, you need experienced players everywhere who won it a the least once what City don’t have atm, you need luck and favorable draws. And they are not competing with PL clubs quality, they will compete with several times CL winners... so if he should accomplish back to back mission impossible to get your sympathy and even if he does I doubt it. You guys are stubborn enough to find excuses to why he won CL, I smell the « City got help from ref «  from here...so no need to force yourself of any recognition already.
I just pointed the lack of logic in the interpretation of the « factual facts «  and so did Lodatz brilliantly.
There was no Galactico transfer, none of the players won big before Comming to City and almost all of them adapted instantly to the league which is not a coincidence.
Today Chelsea got schooled tactically, on paper there is no big gap between players except Aguero ( you had Costa who was equivalent in term of level ), Sane/Willian, Hazard/KDB, Cesc/Silva..... and si on.
But some are overconfident and take pleasure playing the way they do, and others doubting themselves and looked lost on the pitch playing without a striker.
You saw Hazard reaction after late substitution ? He didn’t even looked at Conte and already expressed his frustration to these tactics that doesn’t suit him...

It’s simple for me, Pep and Klopp are the best managers in PL, both took teams who were sinking and both are changing them into winners, I also add Pochetino who is doing the same with Spurs.

I would rate them like this : my own preferences judging on results, playing style and management...

1- Klopp
2- Pep
3- Pochetino
4- Mourinho
5- Conte
6- Claude Puel
7- Sean Dyche
8- Javi Gracia ( watford )
9- Arsene Wenger
10- Benitez

Spurs are having the new stadium « syndrome « this season. They made time to start capitalizing on home games just like Atletico Madrid. And their first place in CL group stage had a cost in term of points too.
They are still trying to look for balance between CL and PL, it’s the third year that they loose easy points in the start and then get a perfect second leg. It’s a progression process, you cannot become a monster team in one season, but they look getting into the right direction. Huge achievement if they knock the « old lady « out of CL. But if they advance they should not loose points in the league preparing for CL.
I think 4th place will be played between United and Chelsea...

It’s up to the players at 90%.

No. If it was up to players 90% Barcelona wouldn't be switching managers year in and year out.

Before it became so poisons to talk about City. i made a simple argument that there is no doubt that City has made all the right transfers. Possibly, Pep has full control of the transfers and financial backing. He did great by using those powers as an opportunity to build the team and spend lavishly but you were in the past one of those people who would criticize teams ( like us) overspending and accuse us buying the titles. Even though your team has been doing just as same and even more and even more aggressively recently but it looks like you have changed your attitudes about spending.

Also, I am not saying that City is buying the league because everyone does in some manner or way, but what I am saying is that spending that much and getting results was expected. I am 110% if Pelegrini had spent that much and was given time, he would have been doing just as good. However, man was booed off the team. Let's say Pep is this wonder manager then wouldn't it makes sense for a good tactician do at least better than 6 looses , 39 goals conceded and 3rd place of last year or disastrous game against Monaco? Don't call that team sinking ship because that is just excuse already. It had huge investments before and the team was build year in and year out since 2009 to win CL! Every year spending as much as required to keep the team on ultimate goal!

On the other hand, lets look at the man who you think is outclassed and apparently less of a manager than Pep. When Conte took over Chelsea we were the same team under Jose that finished 6th and squad needed more players than what Conte was allowed to bring but he turned things around and we won the league. If we go even further back when Jose came in his first spell ( we should have won the league) but we didn't have enough luck with some referee decisions and squad that wasn't as good as City's squad but did so much better than anyone expected and made into CL semi final ( that year we didn't loose to single top club). That is how best managers manage and they are tested with limited resources not when you have spent sh8t ton, status of the club ( Bayern and Barcelona) and suddenly Jesus is the second best thing after Pep ! Clear fanaticism from you and likes of you with double standards approach like always. Short memory span I notice amongst your opinions, although I don't doubt that people change and they should change but it seems like you only change your stance when it directly in regards to Pep or Barcelona or Messi!

Edit: I had to do some polishing. Thank you for reading, and as always have a nice day tiki.

No. If it was up to players 90% Barcelona wouldn't be switching managers year in and year out.

Except they aren't. Pep - 4 years, Vilanova/Roura - 1 (due to his health), Martino - 1 year (he wasn't a good fit or good enough), Enrique - 3 years, and this season Valverde.

Let's say Pep is this wonder manager then wouldn't it makes sense for a good tactician do at least better than 6 looses , 39 goals conceded and 3rd place of last year or disastrous game against Monaco?

You have to remember that season City started really good if I can recall correctly it was 9 wins and a draw? They were first place but injuries to key players without suitable depth caused problems. Chelsea was just better last year in the end especially since many of the mid to lower teams couldn't handle Conte's tactical approach to the game. City didn't have a disastrous game against Monaco. Like I said previously, that Monaco was scary. Every top team wanted to avoid them. City only lost on away goals.

Please keep the conversation on football without divulging into a shtshow. I don't want to close another thread that started well.