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Messi & Ronaldo's scoring gap in the CL's late stages
Dynastian98 5 months ago
Real Madrid 481 7114

Came across this recently.

Goals only in the CL QUARTERS, SEMIS, and FINAL

Messi, from 2005-12 (Barcelona golden era)

20 games
13 goals
4 assists

Ronaldo, from 2003-12

21 games
14 goals
3 assists

Basically identical records. Here's the disparity now.

Messi, from 2013-18

16 games
3 goals
2 assists

Ronaldo, from 2013-18 (Madrid golden era)

26 games
26 goals
3 assists

The 3 Messi goals were x1 against PSG in 2012-13, and x2 against Bayern in 2014-15 when they won the treble.

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Comments
Marcus2011 5 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 270 6057

Incredible. I never looked at it this way. Ronaldo big man for big occasion indeed!

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Eden17Hazard17 5 months ago
Chelsea FC 156 4223

Mentality wise, Ronaldo has always been ahead of Messi.

And for big occasions, mentality > skill.

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Emobot7 5 months ago
396 9723

Messi more consistent in domestic league, Ronaldo is better in big occassion. A team which would have had both would have won every title they could propably get every season. When those two retire, they are going to play exhibition game together and it will be amazing. Anyway, Ronaldo really deserve credit for his amazing mentality in big game matche as Eden said.

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tiki_taka 5 months ago Edited
Barcelona, France 353 9451

You should look at the ratings of l’ équipe or whoscored or opta to understand the impact of a player...
Modric had more impact last year than Ronaldo with 0 goal in Final stage.
I also remember some games like Barca - Manchester City home game with one of the best individual performances ever from Messi with 0 goal one assist. The game ended 1-0.
Ronaldo is probably the best striker of all time, Messi is the GOAT player. He brought consistency to another dimension even Maradona and Ronaldo never reached. Consistency in overall performance, Motm and ratings, a tap in or a pk while having an average game could only be seen in ratings...

After saying this, these stats of Ronaldo are impressive indeed.

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You should look at the ratings of l’ équipe or whoscored or opta to understand the impact of a player...
Modric had more impact last year than Ronaldo with 0 goal in Final stage.
I also remember some games like Barca - Manchester City home game with one of the best individual performances ever from Messi with 0 goal one assist. The game ended 1-0.
Ronaldo is probably the best striker of all time, Messi is the GOAT player. He brought consistency to another dimension even Maradona and Ronaldo never reached.

After saying this, these stats of Ronaldo are impressive indeed.

Dynastian98 5 months ago Edited
Real Madrid 481 7114

Your analysis is completely wrong.

Modric's job isn't to score goals, it's to dictate the play. Whereas Messi and Ronaldo largely have the same roles: score goals and create chances in the final third. Difference is that Messi dribbles more often and starts a little deeper to pick up the ball (especially in the past couple years). If you want to play that game, why don't we compare Ronaldo to Xavi?

Moreover, those Opta stats or whatever you want to use don't take into consideration Ronaldo's greatest talent: his ability to open up space for himself and for his teammates. Messi is completely inept in this regard because he has literally zero movement off-ball unless he is about to receive a clear cut chance to score. The chaos from Ronaldo's movement alone generates some 20 goals for his team each season. It's more convenient when you play a possession heavy style where all those little short passes can rack up your "Opta" score.

Comparing Ronaldo and Messi by goals is a completely valid perspective. Messi hasn't only failed to score in recent Champions League knockout ties, but he's completely sh*t the bed in some of them too.

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Your analysis is completely wrong.

Modric's job isn't to score goals, it's to dictate the play. Whereas Messi and Ronaldo largely have the same roles: score goals and create chances in the final third. Difference is that Messi dribbles more often and starts a little deeper to pick up the ball (especially in the past couple years).

Comparing Ronaldo and Messi by goals is a completely valid perspective. Messi hasn't only failed to score in recent Champions League knockout ties, but he's completely sh*t the bed in some of them too.

DarthFooty 5 months ago
Queens Park Rangers, United States 8 412

@Dynastian98 "Messi is completely inept in this regard because he has literally zero movement off-ball unless he is about to receive a clear cut chance to score." Wow Clearly I watch a different Messi than you do. Not saying he is the best at creating space, but completely inept just really makes it sounds extremely bias. Not to mention, you have Real as your selected team.

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Emobot7 5 months ago
396 9723

@Dynast Dude, you know I really respect and appreciate you but I agree with DarthFooty here, we don't watch the same Messi if thats what you think.

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tuan_jinn 5 months ago Edited
Manchester United, Netherlands 184 6457

@Dyn: Completely agree with DarthFooty here. I completely dont get how do you get that with Messi game. Or your love for Ronaldo simply blinds you.

Both are incredible and these stats dont mean nothing! Not even in big game impact! FAR from that

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Completely agree with DarthFooty here. I completely dont get how do you get that with Messi game. Or your love for Ronaldo simply blinds you

@Dyn: Completely agree with DarthFooty here. I completely dont get how do you get that with Messi game. Or your love for Ronaldo simply blinds you.

Both are incredible and these stats dont mean nothing!

tiki_taka 5 months ago Edited
Barcelona, France 353 9451

Do you see Juve like a scoring machine due to space created ? Nope. Madrid being in shambles has many factors and the biggest of them was Zidane departure, players injury ( Bale, Ascensio, Carvajal , Modric ), players being completely off form ( Marcelo, Kroos, Isco ), lack of competition for starters ( Morata, Pepe, Kovacic, Mayoral ), signings not adapting like Courtois, Lopotegui bad management, and you have the Ronaldo departure which is a very important factor.

Just remember Benitez days, with same squad and a 3 years younger Ronaldo struggling just like now until loosing to Barca at Bernabeu home 0-4 with Ronaldo being fielded 90 min. Just before Zidane appointment...

We can agree that we don’t see things same way at least.

To answer your question on why Messi goes deaper instead of just making runs like Cavani, Suarez or Ronaldo ?

We got a weak midlefield and if he does not drop deep to dictate the tempo, the ball does not arrive. As simple as that, what’s makes him with Busquets the players we could never rest last seasons.

You can see this season Messi being feeded and scoring easy goals in his standards without 40 meters runs or difficult angles shot. It’s not like he is playing better. We clearly got more material in the mid which could let him concentrate on runs a little.
The one vs one with the keeper goals and the tap ins he scored this season are many, while before he had to do a miracle with Alba each time. Which is good for the rest of the season Messi is resting his body a maximum and scoring easy goals like the last ones lately. He is now even making some defensive duty from time to time which was never the case when we were 100% Messi dépendant.

At the difference, the effort Ronaldo is putting at Juve is legendary, he clearly got less opportunities but he is doing a great effort. He goes in the wings and participate Moreno often to the build ups... he is a legend really, just never give up.

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Do you see Juve like a scoring machine due to space created ? Nope. Madrid being in shambles has many factors and the biggest of them was Zidane departure, players injury ( Bale, Ascensio, Carvajal ), players being completely off form ( Marcelo, Kroos, Isco ), lack of competition for starters ( Morata, Pepe, Kovacic, Mayoral ), signings not adapting like Courtois, Lopotegui bad management, and you have the Ronaldo departure which is a very important factor.

Just remember Benitez days, with same squad and a 3 years younger Ronaldo struggling just like now until loosing to Barca at Bernabeu home 0-4 with Ronaldo being fielded 90 min. Just before Zidane appointment...

We can agree that we don’t see things same way at least.

Golefty 5 months ago
Toronto FC 25 987

Great post!
My two cents -
as far as making space and movement goes, Messi doesnt require as much space to pull off a goal or make a play, he is a wizard in that way, he can either dribble or shoot/pass his way out of most tight spaces, or get fouled trying.
Ronaldo has to be moving because he is usually being fed the ball from a cross/lob or cut inside to the box, where as Messi is receiving the ball usually outside of 18 yrd box and further back ,

Messi impact and importance to a game isnt defined by the number of goals he scored/assisted
They play different positins/roles now, messi is further back , however that is an very impressive stat.

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JozeV2 5 months ago Edited
Chelsea, Greece 4 181

@Dynastian98 In what world does Messi not affect the defenders or does not create space for his team?

Look his passing and his vision and how much impact he made in few seconds. You are clearly wrong for that one.

I remember in a game Greece played Argentina we had our best defender to chase Messi all over the game (Papastathopoulos) alongside an experienced Greek defense and he destroyed us, he pretty much made everything you stated above Ronaldo does.

Messi so far adapted himself to almost everything, even with Argentina he does his job the others fail to deliver and that's a fact. I take nothing from Ronaldo and how great he is but you simply can't say things like that.

Also Barcelona could never be aggresive on the aerial play besides corners with Pique and Puyol. Despite its fair or not Ronaldo is a bigger athlete and can take advantage of his height. Headers are a massive number in terms of goals in Ronaldo's career. How can you ask a midget like Messi to score headers? Especially vs beasts like Manolas and Chiellini. That's a major goal factor taken out of his game.

Last but not least how can you blame Messi for the UCL recent failures when its a game of 11 vs 11? You can't always win even if you are the GOAT. MJ lost to Pistons, Lebron lost to Spurs and Warriors and the list goes on in different team sports. I would accept saying Messi had many controversial games in his career and favoritism but so did Ronaldo in the last 3 UCL he won.

P.S. Messi can be a playmaker like Modric almost in the same level maybe better or slightly worse and his stats prove he can also score as much as Ronaldo.
P.S. I slightly hate you for making me agree with tiki (joking)

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Marcus2011 5 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 270 6057

I am with Dynastian on this one. I will just make reference that if Messi has an amazing ability to create space then where is his off the ball game play for Argentina? Where is that magic?

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Golefty 5 months ago
Toronto FC 25 987

When Messi plays for Argentina he is carrying his team and is probably marked heavier

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Marcus2011 5 months ago
Chelsea FC, England 270 6057

If he is marked heavily wouldn't that open space for other players to score and getting into spaces? It almost seems like you are saying Messi is playing for below average team. Argentina are packed with world class players that play for top clubs in Europe.

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Emobot7 5 months ago
396 9723

@Marcus2011 The pressure get to him a lot for Argentina and the rest of the team underperform comparing to their club form in general. The fact Argentina midfield and defense are inconsistent at best doesn't help either.

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Marcus2011 5 months ago Edited
Chelsea FC, England 270 6057

He is one of the greatest players in history there isn't any doubt, but do you want to say that pressure is his problem for underperforming? There is always big pressure on such players, but they are better at handling it most players in the world.

I agree let's blame the argentine team for being crap then should we thank Barcelona players for making Messi look better and play better? I don't want to put entire blame on Messi, but man maybe it is time to face the reality that after 12 years of national team football, he has only played amazingly well in Olympic tournament and btw same players are still around.

I saw Ronaldo playing bad for Portugal but honestly half his team are playing for mid level clubs and he still finds within him to inspire them. If he doesn't score then His movements off the ball give the space to players and he is just as heavily marked like Messi. Ronaldo is unpredictable in sense that if he can't get any chances inside the box then he will try his chances from outside and those shots are powerful and if it doesn't lend in the net goalies usually can't catch it so it bounces out creating more problems for opposition. After so many years of watching and debating, I came to defeninite conclusion, if you want to win throphies with any team bring Ronaldo in and Messi only if you have this tiki taka passing system with players who understand his movements otherwise the lad is lost! Ronaldo adjusts to any players and any team. Truely most complete player we have ever witnessed. Just like he is doing it in Juventus right now at age of 33.

P.s. And I am not Ronaldo fan boy, I am Zidane fan boy and to me he is the greatest, so I don't have a dog in this fight.

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Golefty 5 months ago Edited
Toronto FC 25 987

@marcus

I agree let's blame the argentine team for being crap then should we thank Barcelona players for making Messi look better and play better?

Your twisting my words here, never said argentina was crap, they were runners up in 2014 and made it just as far as Portugal last wc

if you got back to the original argument, its messi and ronaldo creating space and their movement off the ball.
My stance is that messi doesn't need to move as much off the ball . usually receiving the ball in the midfield close to his teammates, whereas Ronaldo is a larger moving target/aerial threat, and often the last man to touch the ball

I am a huge fan of ronaldo aswell so i obviously agree with alot of what you said, except that he is as heavily marked , i would think its obvious from the position they play messi( midfield) and ronaldo (final third)
like you said ronaldo is so unpredicatable , you can barely mark him without losing a defender or drawing a foul, next to impossible to compete with him in the air, and unless you mark him to near perfection you suddenly playing with one less man and he will likely score or assist,

Messi is marked heavier because he is the play maker, if you stop him you stop the team. and its less risky its outside the 18

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tiki_taka 5 months ago Edited
Barcelona, France 353 9451

Argentina wouldn’t have qualified for WC if Messi didn’t game back for last games, and they lost 2-4 to Nigeria and 6-1 to Spain in friendlies without Messi.
But yeah he is just a liability in such a nation packed with world class players... Somehow.

If anyone could understand that having good players isn’t enough to make a team unless everything on and outside the pitch is managed the right way are English people.
3 lions from 1998 to 2018 were struggling to get even out of groupstage let away loosing finals... they got Lampard and Gerard, Rooney and Rioat the back, they tried Capelo and Sven Eriksen, ans any English coach experienced in PL, they couldn’t play any final. Doesn’t mean Lampard is sh*t Marcus ?

Messi lost 2 Copa America on Pks, and a WC final in extra time being one of the best players in each competition if not the best. But yeah Higuain liability is also Messi to blame for. He is just the best scorer of the history of his country with one of the weakest Argentina squad and Federation ever. But where is the magic ?

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Argentina wouldn’t have qualified for WC if Messi didn’t game back for last games, and they lost 2-4 to Nigeria and 6-1 to Spain in friendlies without Messi.
But yeah he is just a liability in such a nation packed with world class players... Somehow.

JozeV2 5 months ago
Chelsea, Greece 4 181

@Marcus I would agree with you but Argentina's results without Messi proved it for me. He is 90% of the team.

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Emobot7 5 months ago
396 9723

I completely agree with both tiki and Joze, sure, Argentina could be considered as underperforming when Messi play for the team but thing is, they are underperforming way more when he isn't playing. I mean, everytime Argentina gone far in a competition recently, it was mostly thank to Messi. Portugal player on the other hand glue well together thanks to the fact lots of them play in similar level of team and especially because they got a much better mentality and defensive potential. I also rate Fernando Santos pretty highly but thats might just be me.

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