Hell, what a match that was!
2 stupid typical mistakes by Arsenal and United is easily winning 2:0 away. Then De Gea proceeds to make saves out of this world (hell, I'd probably want a drug test if I was Wenger), hats down.

United got their win, I'm not even salty or mad about that, we should have finished our chances better but, what I'm salty is this.

Just, explain me one thing, how are these not penalties, tell me how?

First one is a pen. Second is not. Don't really feel a need to explain them, it's pretty clear.

If you want to get into refs though, Kos should've 100% seen red. So have fun with that.

EDIT: I've never watched ArsenalFanTV before, but based on the memes, I might have to for this one.

someone posted this in the comments section,i think this sums up the game pretty well

First one was certainly a pen, second one I think Lacazette went down too easily. (Actually come to look at it again, I'm not quite sure with the second one either, could've been a pen, lol).

ya the first penalty should have been given and that would have made the game even more interesting, there were a lot of fouls and the game was rough, after the pogba red card they managed to hold on to the lead, a vital 3 points, pogba assisted beautifully twice today so its hard two imagine they will win in the derby, on the other hand Manchester cities latest wins have come from vital last minute goals, I expect mourinho to start herrera and that "IF" Manchester united wins it will be a 1- 0 victory in good old mourinho fashion

all in all as a neutral im glad Man u held on to the lead because ATM there the only team competing with man city for the title, arsenal are 12 points behind and the season is nearly half way through, as far as arsenal goes, not to be rude but 4th place would be a great result

I would never expect the second to be given a penalty. Lacazette fell over Smalling after Smalling was already on the ground. The contact on Welbeck was a clear penalty, though.

Arsenal was sloppy and they can only blame themselves. Two terrible mistakes at the back and then terrible finishing (not taking anything away from De Gea).
City and United are miles ahead of everyone in the EPL right now.

As mentioned in the chat room, the first was a PK. The second, nope!

The more I see Pogba's ejection, the more I agree with it, and I am trying to see it from the Refs perspective. As a Man U fan, of course it was not a Red but I would agree with a Yellow.

From the Refs point of view, and he was in a good position to see the play, he has to give the Red, whether he thought Pogba did it on purpose or not.

Watch the play for yourselves.

Overall the game was a blast to watch. De Gea was on his game and showed why he is one of the best keepers in the world.

wait, why are people saying that kos was a red card? do you know what constitutes a red card ? since that wasn't a clear tackle with intent to hurt (which is what the referee thought pogba was doing), it definitely wasn't a clear and obvious goal scoring opportunity as there was bellerin clearly in a position to cover, it was just passed the half way line as well.

the problem with the first penalty was that welbeck didn't stay down and make a big deal of it.. it really seems like you gotta start crying for the ref to believe you because everyone is diving and simulating so much more the refs don't know whats real and not real

second penalty was a penalty as well, if the defender only gets the man and doesn't touch the ball its a penalty simple. lacazette got taken out.

Time to beat down a homer.

Kos is a red card because Bellerin is 15-20 yards behind Lukaku. Bellerin is quick. But Lukaku isn't Per Metersaker. I think a red card would've been a tiny bit unfortunate, but so was the Pogba red. Nothing either of them can really do it about.

The first pen wasn't called in my mind for two reasons, the first being that the referee didn't have a great view of it, and the second being that Arsenal was asking for pens on everything. In the first half, all the Arsenal fans/players had their arms in the air for a Valencia handball - despite the fact it hit his chest and his hands were behind his back. Arsenal cried wolf all game, and by the time Welbeck happened, the ref isn't sure, and he's never going to take their word for it at that point. So it wasn't called. If you're getting a pen from someone in that position, it has to be the assistant, who does have a good view. Why he doesn't flag is beyond my personal speculation, but you rarely see assistants give pens.

The second one is absolutely not a penalty, and I can't believe that you think it is. The main reason is that Smalling isn't making a tackle, he's making a block. He's anticipating that Lacazette is going to make a first-time ball across the six. Lacazette doesn't, and continues over ground that now belongs to Smalling - added to the fact that Lacazette no longer has possession, and this is a moot point. You can see very clearly that when Smalling goes to ground, he's not going where the ball is, he's going where he thinks the cross is going to be. When Lacazette falls over him, it's meaningless, because that's Smalling's ground now.

I didn't think Pogba's red was unfortunate at all. It was clear as day. Although Bellerin went to ground first in an attempt to deflect the ball, you can't expect to stomp on a body part as vulnerable as the knee and not be sent off. Any studs-up challenge is a red, and Pogba's was one of the easiest red card challenges I have seen in a long time.

I didn't mean it like that, it was a red. It's just that there was nothing Pogba could've done to not get a red there and still go for the ball. The same way way there's nothing Kos can do to Lukaku other than pull him down or give him a 1v1.

I was under the impression that tackles similar to kos were reds but if I recall correctly, Ramos did something very similar against Atletico in the second final and also got away with a yellow and people defended it by saying it was a tactical foul since the foul happened so far from the box. Again, I'm not 100% sure it was the exact same type of foul but for me those are worthy of reds.

A handball on the goal line is a tactical foul. It's still a red card. If you are the last man back, and you commit a foul, it is a red card. That's it. Would it have been harsh given the circumstance? Of course. Would it be the correct call to make? Yes.

Well, who would have though that Bellerin will make miss espana 2017 instead of defending, it wasn't possible for Pogba to actually do something other, however I'm happy that Bellerin isn't injured because this could have ended very bad.

However I'm still going to disagree about you with that 2nd pen, I still think it was a clean penalty as day. Eeven if Laca already passed the ball, you can't take a player down.

If someone got that Koscielny incident, please share it, I have missed it.

I am sort of confused. Arsenal was playing some quality football but yet lost. De Gea was having a great day ( as always) but then again Arsenal was just wasteful.

I think even if Arsenal got that penalty, things wouldn't have changed because United seemed like a team that wasn't going to leave without 3 points.

Pogba getting red was just foolish of him especially when such an important home derby is coming up. Hopefully, if FA won't give him longer than one game ban because as the neutral fan it will be nice to see full force United playing against full force City.

That's true, I'm not saying anything about result, it's pure fault of Arsenal poor finishing.

@Marcus well, they already got away with that Lukaku thing, isn't straight red 3 match ban or did United made a protest to make it just for 1 game?

@quikzyyy I saw the Kos incident, last man between Lukaku and the goal (well there Cech but you get me) and he pull down Lukaku. Ref call a foul but doesn't give red. Bellerin however was coming back and might pherhap have done something though its very unlikely.

Just found it, but I don't think that's a red card, Lukaku is like 45 yards away from the goal, and the most important the ball is going towards the corner flag and not straight towards Cech, + Bellerin was there as well.

If it was clean goal scoring opportunity then yes, clear red, but this wasn't the case given the direction where ball and Lukaku headed.

The ball is going that way because Lukaku loses control when Kos pulls him down. Without the foul, he is in on goal. Without the foul, Lukaku isn't exactly slow, and he's easily got a 1v1 before Bellerin gets back. Everything you're describing is due to Kos' interference.

Btw, I don't want to be controversial, but why is no-one mentioning about Bellerin being a manipulator? Why did he not go in with his foot instead? I mean, who puts their leg on the floor to try and tackle someone?! If he used his feet to tackle Pogba, it wouldn't have happened! And also, Pogba couldn't have really done anything about it.. he was running and his foot was in mid-air.. but he did 'dig' it in and the ref had the perfect view... but still i think it should have been a yellow. It is my own personal opinion and obviously i'm gonna be biased but... i still think it is a little harsh on Pogba. :)