World Class players right now

amir_keal 7 years ago Edited

Arsenal, Netherlands 66 2895

Golazo111

Maybe you're overrating Bayern then

Alright, Real Madrid has 8, EPL has 10. Point still the same.

you can only think about Ibrahimovic from United that is probably not even going to play 10 games this season, do you really think that they are only good because of DeGea

Well, in their last full season, they won the EFL cup, a cup EPL teams don't tend to prioritize, and the Europa League, which is basically a weakened version of Champions League. In the league they finished 6th. That's the standard of players United have currently. Maybe at the end of the season if they improve more of those players would have developed, like Pogba for instance.

Muller, Boateng, Vidal have been slacking for a while, Pique as well, many say the same about Buffon, and Chielini specially now that Bonucci is not there, pretty much alot of the players you accept as World Class are based on performances from 3-5 years ago...Look how easy you put Suarez as World class when he has been a shadow of his own shadow what did he do recently to confirm he is still world class?

..........

Muller doesn't work in CA system, I guarantee you if he moves to a team which knows how to use his advantages then he will be one of the best players in the world.

Boateng was injured for a while, but he is still in the top bracket for sure.

Vidal is also still in the top brackets. Just because his roles in Bayern and Chile are different doesn't make him not world class. He is superb for both club and nation.

Pique has declined a bit yes, but to say he is no longer world class? He still commands the defense of Barcelona with his aerial presence and pretty good slide tackling.

Buffon? Dude was nominated for the UEFA player of the season, yet he is not world class. He is still one of the best goalkeepers in the world.

Chielini is one of the best performing players in the Juventus team alongside Buffon and Bonucci, he is certainly world class. Let's not forget you put Mustafi and Emre Can as world class, does that make them better than Chiellini?

Suarez is clearty world class. That's all I have to say. You put Lukaku and Laca ahead of him?

If David Luiz and Willian are not world class then why are they champions of the league and play for Brazil that qualified first to the World Cup?

By that logic, should we say Maxwell is the best player of all time because he has the most trophies?

Yvan21

Yea sure, but the same can be said for other gks like Buffon, De Gea, Courtois, etc. The goalkeeper position is honestly tricky to gauge in quality because if you have a comedy show for a defense then it's going to make you look bad because you will concede a lot of goals as consequence of getting more shots on goal.

Well yes, but when the teams are equally matched it's those games that these goalkeepers prove themselves. He practially threw the game away against Chelsea, did the same for France against Sweden. Also to blame for two City goals last season in which Tottenham got lucky to get a draw.

So more or less where would you draw the line between a top class player and a world class player? Cause I think that's causing a lot of confusion atm.

World class = Neuer, Buffon
Top class = Cech, Navas

So, this can be quite contraversial, so let's put it this way. Do you consider Lloris to be closer to Neuer's level or Cech's level?

Anyway I've added him to the list, since he's getting quite popular.

nigelpayne

Added Pogba and Rodriguez. I'll wait a bit longer for more suggestions on the others.

Emobot7

Added quite a few of those players on the list.

Golefty

no Dybala on your list? is he still a flop XD

Ahaa, maybe not a flop. He's a good candidate actually, and due to suggestions he's on the list, I also thought about putting him on the list even before the suggestions.

Showing previous versions of this text.

2017-09-20 18:45:39

Golazo111

Maybe you're overrating Bayern then

Alright, Real Madrid has 8, EPL has 10. Point still the same.

you can only think about Ibrahimovic from United that is probably not even going to play 10 games this season, do you really think that they are only good because of DeGea

Well, in their last full season, they won the EFL cup, a cup EPL teams don't tend to prioritize, and the Europa League, which is basically a weakened version of Champions League. In the league they finished 6th. That's the standard of players United have currently. Maybe at the end of the season if they improve more of those players would have developed, like Pogba for instance.

Muller, Boateng, Vidal have been slacking for a while, Pique as well, many say the same about Buffon, and Chielini specially now that Bonucci is not there, pretty much alot of the players you accept as World Class are based on performances from 3-5 years ago...Look how easy you put Suarez as World class when he has been a shadow of his own shadow what did he do recently to confirm he is still world class?

..........

Muller doesn't work in CA system, I guarantee you if he moves to a team which knows how to use his advantages then he will be one of the best players in the world.

Boateng was injured for a while, but he is still in the top bracket for sure.

Vidal is also still in the top brackets. Just because his roles in Bayern and Chile are different doesn't make him not world class. He is superb for both club and nation.

Pique has declined a bit yes, but to say he is no longer world class? He still commands the defense of Barcelona with his aerial presence and pretty good slide tackling.

Buffon? Dude was nominated for the UEFA player of the season, yet he is not world class. He is still one of the best goalkeepers in the world.

Chielini is one of the best performing players in the Juventus team alongside Buffon and Bonucci, he is certainly world class. Let's not forget you put Mustafi and Emre Can as world class, does that make them better than Chiellini?

Suarez is clearty world class. That's all I have to say. You put Lukaku and Laca ahead of him?

If David Luiz and Willian are not world class then why are they champions of the league and play for Brazil that qualified first to the World Cup?

By that logic, should we say Maxwell is the best player of all time because he has the most trophies?

Yvan21

Yea sure, but the same can be said for other gks like Buffon, De Gea, Courtois, etc. The goalkeeper position is honestly tricky to gauge in quality because if you have a comedy show for a defense then it's going to make you look bad because you will concede a lot of goals as consequence of getting more shots on goal.

Well yes, but when the teams are equally matched it's those games that these goalkeepers prove themselves. He practially threw the game away against Chelsea, did the same for France against Sweden. Also to blame for two City goals last season in which Tottenham got lucky to get a draw.

So more or less where would you draw the line between a top class player and a world class player? Cause I think that's causing a lot of confusion atm.

World class = Neuer, Buffon
Top class = Cech, Navas

So, this can be quite contraversial, so let's put it this way. Do you consider Lloris to be closer to Neuer's level or Cech's level?

See the difference?

nigelpayne

Added Pogba and Rodriguez. I'll wait a bit longer for more suggestions on the others.

Emobot7

Added quite a few of those players on the list.

2017-09-20 18:45:39

Golazo111

Maybe you're overrating Bayern then

Alright, Real Madrid has 8, EPL has 10. Point still the same.

you can only think about Ibrahimovic from United that is probably not even going to play 10 games this season, do you really think that they are only good because of DeGea

Well, in their last full season, they won the EFL cup, a cup EPL teams don't tend to prioritize, and the Europa League, which is basically a weakened version of Champions League. In the league they finished 6th. That's the standard of players United have currently. Maybe at the end of the season if they improve more of those players would have developed, like Pogba for instance.

Muller, Boateng, Vidal have been slacking for a while, Pique as well, many say the same about Buffon, and Chielini specially now that Bonucci is not there, pretty much alot of the players you accept as World Class are based on performances from 3-5 years ago...Look how easy you put Suarez as World class when he has been a shadow of his own shadow what did he do recently to confirm he is still world class?

..........

Muller doesn't work in CA system, I guarantee you if he moves to a team which knows how to use his advantages then he will be one of the best players in the world.

Boateng was injured for a while, but he is still in the top bracket for sure.

Vidal is also still in the top brackets. Just because his roles in Bayern and Chile are different doesn't make him not world class. He is superb for both club and nation.

Pique has declined a bit yes, but to say he is no longer world class? He still commands the defense of Barcelona with his aerial presence and pretty good slide tackling.

Buffon? Dude was nominated for the UEFA player of the season, yet he is not world class. He is still one of the best goalkeepers in the world.

Chielini is one of the best performing players in the Juventus team alongside Buffon and Bonucci, he is certainly world class. Let's not forget you put Mustafi and Emre Can as world class, does that make them better than Chiellini?

Suarez is clearty world class. That's all I have to say. You put Lukaku and Laca ahead of him?

If David Luiz and Willian are not world class then why are they champions of the league and play for Brazil that qualified first to the World Cup?

By that logic, should we say Maxwell is the best player of all time because he has the most trophies?

Yvan21

Yea sure, but the same can be said for other gks like Buffon, De Gea, Courtois, etc. The goalkeeper position is honestly tricky to gauge in quality because if you have a comedy show for a defense then it's going to make you look bad because you will concede a lot of goals as consequence of getting more shots on goal.

Well yes, but when the teams are equally matched it's those games that these goalkeepers prove themselves. He practially threw the game away against Chelsea, did the same for France against Sweden. Also to blame for two City goals last season in which Tottenham got lucky to get a draw.

So more or less where would you draw the line between a top class player and a world class player? Cause I think that's causing a lot of confusion atm.

World class = Neuer, Buffon
Top class = Cech, Navas

So, this can be quite contraversial, so let's put it this way. Do you consider Lloris to be closer to Neuer's level or Cech's level?

Anyway I've added him to the list, since he's getting quite popular.

nigelpayne

Added Pogba and Rodriguez. I'll wait a bit longer for more suggestions on the others.

Emobot7

Added quite a few of those players on the list.

amir_keal 7 years ago

Arsenal, Netherlands 66 2895

Anyway guys, food for thought. Is Coutinho world class or not?

Emobot7 7 years ago

538 11432

@amir_keal Coutinho could become WC but he would have to remain constant, stay clear of injury and score a banger or assist a team-mate every two game or so. Right now, I don't think he is consistent enough. :(

@Sunflash Well, Navas in my opinion isn't a terrible keeper but I agree one of the main reason he is Real main keeper is because Madrid defense is so good he don't face so many dangerous shot. He is however capable most of the time, his decision making however can sometime be... weird. Lets just say he sometime make mistake but so do other keeper. I guess I'm trying to say I like him even though I don't think he is world class.

SunFlash 7 years ago

USA 19 3260

@Sunflash Well, Navas in my opinion isn't a terrible keeper but I agree one of the main reason he is Real main keeper is because Madrid defense is so good he don't face so many dangerous shot. He is however capable most of the time, his decision making however can sometime be... weird. Lets just say he sometime make mistake but so do other keeper

Whenever I see Navas concede a goal, I always think, and I am certain Real fans can relate: "De Gea makes that save"

Emobot7 7 years ago Edited

538 11432

@Sunflash Of course, De Gea is one of the best keeper I've ever seen, haven't seen a lot, granted but I still think the only La Liga keeper who could really compare to him is Oblak at the moment and even then De Gea is more consistant. Good to see you active at this time of the day by the way. :)

Showing previous versions of this text.

2017-09-20 20:28:31

@Sunflash Of course, De Gea is one of the best keeper I've ever seen, haven't seen a lot, granted but I still think the only La Liga keeper who could really compare to him is Oblak at the moment and even then De Gea is more constant. Good to see you active at this time of the day by the way. :)

Yvan21 7 years ago Edited

0 440

I for one never wanted De Gea. Madrid supporters as a whole are very very biased towards Spanish players, which is expected to an extent for a Spanish team. Spanish media plays a big factor here as well because they blow up the achievements of Spanish players and push for them to be included on the starting lineup after a few good games. It's no secret that they dislike Navas. I also think a lot of people saw Casillas in De Gea and wanted him for that reason, but we never needed him with Navas as our gk.

@amir Neuer and Buffon are in their own little club. So I'll go with Cech.

For Coutinho, I think it will be clear once we see what he can do when he plays at the biggest stages like elimination rounds in the CL. So far because of the Liverpool's circumstances I don't think he's been fully tested yet. For now, I say no.

Showing previous versions of this text.

2017-09-21 00:01:22

I for one never wanted De Gea. Madrid supporters as a whole are very very biased towards Spanish players, which is expected to an extent for a Spanish team. Spanish media plays a big factor here as well because they blow up the achievements of Spanish players and push for them to be included on the starting lineup after a few good games. It's no secret that they dislike Navas. I also think a lot of people saw Casillas in De Gea and wanted him for that reason, but we never needed him with Navas as our gk.

Golazo111 7 years ago

Chelsea, Mexico 70 2607

All this talk is nothing untill someone makes up real criteria of what does it take to be a World class player, in which the majority would probably need to discuss and agree upon.

I mean now it results that Cech is not World class, I bet that nobody here can really prove that opinion, if Cech was from a big football nation he would be considered by some above Buffon by now, that's all it takes, his national team to be better because keepers simply can't do as much.
If you can look beyond that, he has been a top keeper in the best league for so many years it's clear that he has been one of the best keepers PL has ever had...It's funny how Messi doesn't need to win anything with a big football nation like Argentina that has so much talent while Cech had to somehow prove himself for Czech Republic that he can do as much as Buffon that has always had a big Italian defense in front of him, Neuer as well...just another double standard.

SunFlash 7 years ago

USA 19 3260

All this talk is nothing untill someone makes up real criteria of what does it take to be a World class player, in which the majority would probably need to discuss and agree upon.

For once, I actually agree with you. If we have different standards of world-class, what's even the point of discussing it?

I made this thread awhile ago that outlined my stance and attempted to clarify it, regrettably I only ended up getting 5 full sets of data which I felt wasn't even close to representative of this forum, even the active members.

If only to make this show how subjective this is, I disagree with you overall stance on Cech as well. I can think of at least five keepers I'd say are better than him at this point in time, which in my interpretation of world-class, means he is excluded.

Golazo111 7 years ago

Chelsea, Mexico 70 2607

I disagree with you overall stance on Cech as well. I can think of at least five keepers I'd say are better than him at this point in time

5 in the whole world equal or better than Cech at any time still makes him World class dummy...

Emobot7 7 years ago

538 11432

@Golazo

which in my interpretation of world-class, means he is excluded.

Don't call people dummy because their interpretation of world-class is not the same as you. :U

SunFlash 7 years ago

USA 19 3260

5 in the whole world equal or better than Cech at any time still makes him World class dummy...

One of these days, you'll not only read a post, but understand it.

Golazo111 7 years ago

Chelsea, Mexico 70 2607

@Emo just maybe it's a very dumb interpretation, ever thought about that?
It's like saying that only 5 players in every position can be world class, sorry mate Higuain isn't world class because I can think of 5 other strikers better than him, if that doesn't sound stupid then we should just look at fifa 18 ratings and go with that as an indicator lol

SunFlash 7 years ago Edited

USA 19 3260

just maybe it's a very dumb interpretation, ever thought about that?

Well that's entirely subjective.

It's like saying that only 5 players in every position can be world class

That is correct. You understand. Well done.

sorry mate Higuain isn't world class because I can think of 5 other strikers better than him

You can think of five strikers better than Higuain? I mean, if you can, then yes, according to the methodology, he is not world-class. Your reasoning is perfect.

if that doesn't sound stupid then we should just look at fifa 18 ratings and go with that as an indicator lol

I don't understand the connection.

All this talk is nothing untill someone makes up real criteria of what does it take to be a World class player, in which the majority would probably need to discuss and agree upon.

This is literally the point you started with. You remember that, right?

Showing previous versions of this text.

2017-09-21 21:46:20

just maybe it's a very dumb interpretation, ever thought about that?

Well that's entirely subjective.

It's like saying that only 5 players in every position can be world class

That is correct. You understand. Well done.

sorry mate Higuain isn't world class because I can think of 5 other strikers better than him

You can think of five strikers better than Higuain? I mean, if you can, then yes, according to the methodology, he is not world-class. Your reasoning is perfect.

if that doesn't sound stupid then we should just look at fifa 18 ratings and go with that as an indicator lol

I don't understand the connection.

Golazo111 7 years ago Edited

Chelsea, Mexico 70 2607

A top 5 list doesn't mean it will include all World class players , all players in the list are going to be world class but not all world class players will be in the list so it's very stupid to mix topics and not see the obvious flaw in that logic, maybe if this was something 5 year olds would try I could understand that naming a top 5 would be enough but it's obviously too simple and just not good enough, like I already explained.

Now back to the topic, I tried to argue that if there was a criteria that a player needs to pass in order to be considered a world class player it would be easy to see what a player is missing or if it's clear that he belongs to that list;

-It can be like a form in which if the player checks out all or maybe the high majority of the things in question he can be seen as a world class player;

Example:
Does the player have a key role in the team?
Does the player play for his national team?
Does the player take over in big games?
Does the player get Motm awards often?
Does the player get to feature in the highlights often?

...ofc there has be a certain amount of questions that should be harder to say yes to...

Did the player win individual awards?
Did the player play in more than one final of a big tournament?
Did the player have a big transfer fee in his career?

...ofc there has be even more specific questions that we can agree make the clear difference...

Did the player show consistency at the top level for at least 2 seasons?
Did the player ever manage to both score and assist in the same game?
Did the player show a quality that any top club would like to have him for, in case yes, which would that be?
And so on...

-It can be a comparison to a type of a world class player from a few obvious types that all agree on so depending on the position the player in question has, he is compared to the already accepted world class player that plays the same position and from there we can see if he has a pass. Problem with this is the following; Ronaldo and Messi set the bar very high, if they are used ex models for comparation it might disturb the judgement.

-Just like in games we could agree on a set of skills or use data bases from football manager or fifa that every player has and if the main attributes for a player of his position are lets see bigger than 15/20 or higher than 85/100 he can be considered as world class.

These are just some ideas that would make it more clear and less opinion-based and more of a real judgement of how a player is compared to the best players.

Showing previous versions of this text.

2017-09-21 22:58:13