mastashade

Marcus you should not list your argument it makes it easier to understand how irrelevant the points are to the conversation at hand. First off Dynastian was explaining CR7's goal-scoring rate between Man U and Real Madrid so your point about the financial construction of leagues is moot. It is also moot because your best teams take players from your worse teams all of the time, but yes over time it would be hard to be perennially among the top five in the world and often 1 and 2 as they with such rules. However that is hypothetical and we are speaking of what is.

Second, this lack of domestic competition argument is old and quite frankly absurd. Real, Barcelona, and Atletico are just able to perform at such a high level all of the time because how good they are from players to managers and so much else.There have been 6 different Premier league winners and during the same period La liga had 5 different winners. How big is that difference? My guess is big enough for Real Madrid or Barcelona to fit, meaning one of them probably would have crowded out one of those other winners.

Third, confirmation bias and lack of understanding paints your perception of strikers going between spain and england. You don't even back it up with stats. Lets look at Morata's stats.
Season Team Tourn - Apps - Mins - G A SpG KP Drb Fouled Off Disp UnsTch Rating
2018/2019 Atletico SLL, 12(2), 1011, 6, 1, 2, 0.3, 1.4, 1.3, ---- 0.9, 1.6, 2.2,---- 7.13
2018/2019 Chelsea EPL, 11(5), 943, 5, - , 2.2, 0.4, 0.4, 1,----- 1.3, 1.4, 1.8,---- 6.56

They look very comparable but the morata in Atletico has a better a rating. Its almost as if he is playing in a different system for a better coach for the second best team in spain versus the english third or fourth best team. The torres thing is a frequent false trope that epl fans love to tout, but this was caused by torres scoring big goals in big games when he came back but his quality and stats wasnt actually much changed. And you would think the switch from liverpool to chelsea would clue you in on the fact that systems matter and he fit the role better at Liverpool than Chelsea just like he did at Atletico as compared to Chelsea. Pedro seems to be doing fine. Costa was the man ATM then at Chelsea, but is now struggling at ATM. Systems and style matter. Show me more than a couple data points that have little to no change.

Fourth, I agree its is dumb that the English have so many cups. It is unsurprising though given the profit motive and teams wanting more chances to win titles. Also some of your teams tend to decide which competitions to care about so they do field second teams and barca doesnt always do that. Suarez and Messi and so many other key players on the barca squad have been barely rested under valverde or all the way back to enrique. Messi and the first team often play in the copa. they get rested in the second leg sometimes because they decide things in the first match or they rest in the first and try not to concede too many and try to drown them in goals at the camp nou which I am sure liverpool or united fans could see how that could happen to a team like everton or watford. This pain of unnecessary games has been inflicted upon yourselves so it is not an excuse.

Fifth it denotes a different type of merit. It shows a more discrete type of merit, whereas the league is more continuous because you have to consistently perform. So, while yes "could they do it consistently week in week out" is a question, but since we have data from a league that is of similar quality (la liga) and direct affirmation, through european competition, that these teams typically trounce their opponents and messi scores goals for fun against them then we can assume CR7 and messi would have scored similar numbers of goals in the epl. The argument that these guys get to rest is ridiculous. Barca and Real madrid often push each other to be perfect and this is only recent history and only due to a golden generation of Barca and a certain goat pushing it to that and Real responding to the challenge by building a monster of a team. Messi rarely gets to rest and he puts a world class performance in every facet as an attacking player nearly every game and Ronaldo possibly the greatest finisher of all time was the tip of the spear for a machine with world class bench players. Also over time yes we can compare because consistency can be assured over time because these guys have played so many games against THE BEST england has to offer. Imagine if we were taking data of these guys versus your mid and lower table teams.

Six, all clubs are greedy and its not a surprise when they argue for rules that help them. Clubs at the bottom are seen as hungry rather than greedy but the ones with the power need the restrictions the most in order to get competition so we see them as the antagonist, which is fair. Corruption follows power and lack of enforcement, but I think we are getting a bit far from messi and ronaldo cant score 30+ goals in the epl consistently. Though I will concede that Real and Barca may have a higher player turnover rate under different rules but this does nothing to refute the quality of either Real or Barca on the pitch and this is still a useless hypothetical.

Seventh refs make bad calls and Barca and Real Madrid both give the refs more chances to make calls for them than almost any other teams and they more often in the latter stages of the competition more often because of their quality, so its also more likely to happen for them at the highest stages in the current era of UCL. Confirmation bias. Volume does not equate to rate.

Eighth, you tried to sneak in a pot shot against our teams without any proof. "Man our teams smack any of the outside of top two in la Liga." Prove it. Wow trying to exclude the historical top two to make it seem equal and then giving a back-handed compliment, at best, to ATM to undercut how they are perceived. https://onsideview.com/football/la-liga/la-liga-is-the-best-league-in-the-world/
This is the first year in a while the epl has really competed with the la liga in both the UCL and UEL and credit to them and their MANAGERS. The managers have allowed the teams to create coherent styles and they have performed a lot better. In the future La liga is going to have be in trouble, Messi leaving Barca will probably make it Barca unstable at best. I also think that the epl revenue and market systems are more developed/better in the long run at least in terms of the league acquiring player talent. However they still have to put said talent together. Unai playing his old team is the most recent win of epl over la liga but that is a former manager and there is still a second leg. I agree they make the deals too advantageous for the top clubs, but they would take issue with "robbed" because their argument is people are watching for the best teams in the world with best players and they earned it by having the best results.

Ninth Ronaldo before his peak finishing ability in my eyes scored 31 goals for United in 2008. So yeah I think he could do it with Real more consistently and I definitely think messi can with a version of barca.

The final thing is barcelona has never competed anywhere near this level without the goat. Barca league titles before 2008 = 18 and now they have 8 more and messi has lead or been about second in goals, assists, and through balls in the top 5 leagues for much of that time. Same timeline for ucl titles 2008 = 2 and they have won 3 since. Messi would make almost any team competing for a league title almost unstoppable and any team in the champions league a competitor to win the whole thing. Now if every team in the epl just packed it in and booted it messi's numbers may have dropped from 50 in his peak to 40 something and his 7+ seasons 30+ goals to 4/5+ seasons. The years Real Madrid won the league while ronaldo was there they had great managers who put effort into the winning the league as well as great players, which is also a testament to the effectiveness of messi and barca's philosophy and other players (of which many of the greatest were homegorwn: messi, xavi, iniesta, busquets, pique) so again no need to buy when you make. So salty for someone who doesnt even watch la liga.

P.S. Dynastian's argument about If kane can do it or come close with spurs then they can do it is better than all of my arguments.